As a 1Sgt, PL or CO, did you have an issue if your soldier bought Army-approved gear?

2019-11-17T23:09:33-05:00

i've seen most men in infantry units with plate carriers, different stocks or sights on their M-4s etc. etc. As someone in a leadership position in an infantry unit, if its army approved is it still an issue with you ? Also i get it, SOF can do what they want but if they're rocking the best and latest gear why cant someone in a non SOF unit do it? For me i just hate wearing that heavy/clunky IOTV lol

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2019 12:10 AM

2019-11-18T00:10:27-05:00

What's your idea of "Army approved"? If the Army issues it it's Army approved.
Also, SOF cannot just "do what they want". They have purchasing agents who ensure the gear they request meets certain safety standards. Sure, you've seen those pictures of people running around wearing t-shirts and doing what they want. But, you didn't see the pictures of guys wearing full kit and complete PPE designated for wear by USASOC while training or on missions.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2019 1:32 AM

2019-11-18T01:32:35-05:00

Army approved gear is issued gear. SMs buying their own plate carriers is a huge no-go; even in the MP world we can't buy our own police vests. As far as I'm tracking, if you get shot in armor you purchased on your own, your SGLI is null and void if something were to happen.

SOF units require the highest grade of equipment. Not only did they earn that right to get them, but their operations require the specific equipment that they use

Response by Maj John Bell made Nov 18 at 2019 9:14 AM

2019-11-18T09:14:56-05:00

The majority of young troops don't have the expendable cash to buy the "best" whether it is approved or not. They need that money to take care of themselves and their families.

All items of field gear need to be 100% interchangeable, so damaged or lost gear can be replaced without a "learning curve," while you get used to the new gear.

All gear needs to be in the same place, attached in the same manner to your battle harness or pack, so someone can retrieve it quickly during a combat crap sandwich. That may not be possible if someone is sporting non-issue gear.

Finally, leaders (who have fatter paychecks and can afford better gear) who buy better gear than what is issued to their subordinates, may be misjudging what their subordinates can do.

While I was in, if there was an issue item for the purpose intended, a non-issue item better not show up in my unit in the field. Period.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Nov 18 at 2019 10:51 AM

2019-11-18T10:51:40-05:00

Personally, I would not allow non issued ballistic plates, or the carriers please pull up and read DA IG report # D-2008-067 Body Armor Procurement Policy. It's an eye opener. Also all your body armor has a piece specific id code on it that tells the lot and item. So if there is an issue with that item the unit will get a notice to pull that piece and reissue a good one. You don't get that with personally owned gear.
Also the issue I have with the after market rifle stocks and related items is that they are not in the replacement system and if you break them the unit may not have one in the basic load to replace it with. I do not know of any local purchase weapons parts that are "Approved" replacements.
I always wore issued gear and never suffered any adverse effects other then not looking cool.

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Nov 18 at 2019 12:04 PM

2019-11-18T12:04:21-05:00

Obviously I was never in those lofty heights of command, but from my experience, some in the chain are okay with non-issued items, some are not. Sometimes it depends on what the item in question is. Mine was not to reason why, but I'm sure they have their reasons, and given that they are in charge, those reasons probably have solid validity and are well within regulation.

I get it, lots of aftermarket is often better than issued. Some dudes spent their paychecks getting all kitted out with every piece of tacticool gear they could find because their chain were alright with it; one guy in my unit even bought his own ACOG! For a while I had non-issued flashlights, Gerbers, a cool LED "gangster grip" for my M4, and different sling setup, but that was it (save for a plate carrier I never wore and simply sold off for a minor profit). A new 1SG comes in and nixed many things like carriers (whew!) and non-issue mags, but other stuff was ok. Not sure if anyone asked "why", we just made our peace with it.

I'm sure command can nix ALL aftermarket stuff if they want, so I say go with what they allow, and while it may not be the best in your view, you won't be in the wrong for complying...and you'll save a buck or two!

Response by SGT Ken R made Nov 18 at 2019 1:54 PM

2019-11-18T13:54:10-05:00

I know that Dragon Skin Body Armor was not authorized and they threatened to hang us out to dry if we were caught wearing it. Funny thing was that if you were in command's circle of friends or had enough rank this was overlooked.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2019 4:13 PM

2019-11-18T16:13:05-05:00

If PX Ranger wants to spend his money on the latest cool map case, water bottle carrier, cigarette pouch, or approved boots or APEL Eyewear, that's on him.

When it comes to protection, the gear issued at the unit is determined for a reason and the Soldier will be wearing that in my unit.

I had a PX Ranger in my last unit with custom magazines, holsterd, gillie suits in 3 patterns, high end binocs.., etc. I'm sure it all helped him at AT when we "deployed" to a training area to provide logistical support for OC/Ts.

As a side note, if one of my Soldiers was having debt problems, and buying out Tactical Gear Superstore, I would have to have a little counciling session with him.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2019 7:37 PM

2019-11-18T19:37:15-05:00

Everyone else has more knowledge than I do on the subject so I'm not sure what the rules are for buying your own gear. I've heard it mentioned though that as long as the item had an NSN then it was good to go, for example I saw a few guys who bought plate carriers from other soldiers in different units to replace their IOTV. I mean technically they are issued, just not issued to them lol.

I've heard it has to have an NSN, and from others I've heard it has to be on YOUR clothing record for it to be worn.

If anyone has any info on this it would be cool to know.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 18 at 2019 10:31 PM

2019-11-18T22:31:47-05:00

When I was an NCO the guidance we were given was that we could add too but not take away from unit standards.. so if the unit was authorized plate carriers we could use plate carriers, but we couldn't use aftermarket carriers if we were supposed to be in iotv because we took away from the kevlar protection on the sides and such. It was a wierd rule.

As an LT now, I dont oppose it unless its hindering capability or isnt enhancing tactical capability.
I'm a fan of common sense gear when you've got to be kitted up.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Nov 19 at 2019 12:52 PM

2019-11-19T12:52:58-05:00

I did 4 deployments. 3 with "regular army" and 1 with the SOF community (I was NOT an operator, I was upporting them). My first 3, I had all of the standard stuff, the 4th I got to play with SOME of the "cool guy" toys. On that one, I deployed with my IOTV, complete. I wore my IOTV when in uniform. However, on some of my missions, I was required to wear civilian clothing. On these missions, I wore a low profile plate carrier with low profile plates. No helmet of any sort. And I felt NAKED every time.

The gear is designed to provide maximum protection while making a minimum impact on mobility. You can "trade up" to gain mobility, but you are GUARANTEED to be sacrificing protection. I know Hollywood isn't the best place for examples, but.... If you have seen Blackhawk Down, you will remeber the scene where they tell the FNG to go without his back plate because they don't plan on getting shot in the back. This is an OBVIOUSLY stupid statement. But you are essentially doing the same thing. You want to wear something with less protection because you feel you don't need that level of protection, and would rather be comfortable. That is a BAD decision.

As a PSG, when it came to life support items (body armor, weapon, IFAK, cold weather gear, MOPP, etc.) my Soldiers were allowed their issue gear and only their issue gear. Exceptions could be made for things like boots or eyepro, because there was an approved universal list. Exceptions could also be made for things like eating snacks from a care package instead of Army Chow. But even that was in moderation - good health and nutrition had to be maintained. The Army spends way more time and money than you would believe making sure that you have the best and most effective gear. Don't throw that away because you want to look cool or be comfortable.

Response by SPC Ron Salsbury made Nov 19 at 2019 4:34 PM

2019-11-19T16:34:07-05:00

SPC Harrison, most in the forum would say you are bucking the system; if I were to come in again and lead troops, I would require Military issue for the fact, we are all the same to promote cohesion as a Unit and that no one is special. Your equipment is rated to give you the best protection and effective use in combat; if someone in my group were to be lost due to some nonmilitary related item, I would chalk it up to stupidity and say shit happens!!

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Nov 19 at 2019 6:03 PM

2019-11-19T18:03:28-05:00

Stocks and sights are actually weapon modifications that have to be approved by TACOM. Some of the sight and stock systems out there were RFI and bought off the shelf with a blanket ETP. They are just still banging around out there.

Response by PFC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 4 at 2020 8:14 AM

2020-10-04T08:14:48-04:00

I recently had asked my squad leader a similar question. His answer was that the company CO is okay with personal owned gear as long as we are in a training environment. We don't have IOTVs (being in the reserves) we are only given the basic FLC and pouches with it. It may differ of course with active duty given that active units already have IOTVs issued to them (correct me if I'm wrong) so they already the armor to train with in the field while reserves and national guard forces are not immediately issued any armor unless on deployment orders or in activation status.