Army tries to boost number of minority officers. Your thoughts?

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Oct 2014 07:22:51 -0400

http://www.armytimes.com/article/20141013/NEWS/310130057/Army-tries-boost-number-minority-officers

Not sure what happened to promoting people based on skills, ERB/ORB, competence and basic soldiering. Coupled with correct 600-3 and 350-1 training and career path guidance seem like a true promotion delineation line.

Response by COL Vincent Stoneking made Oct 14 at 2014 10:02 AM

COL Vincent Stoneking — Tue, 14 Oct 2014 10:02:48 -0400

AS LONG AS this is a recruiting & awareness effort to get more people into the pipeline and doesn't devolve into a quota system, or multiple standards, great - no issues.

We need more great officers of whatever race. If there is a bias (intentional or unintentional) is the recruiting pipeline that makes qualified candidates (minority or otherwise) think that they "shouldn't" seriously consider the military, we should attempt to address that. I read the article as outlining nothing more than stepping up recruiting efforts in demographics that are statistically underrepresented.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 19 at 2014 9:28 AM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Oct 2014 09:28:21 -0400

Not a fan of race-based anything. With that said, my wife is from the Philippines, so I tell all the kids to check "pacific islander" vs "white" just in case.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 21 at 2014 11:20 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Oct 2014 23:20:45 -0400

I believe if you want something out of the military it should be earned with dedication and a lot of hard work. Having training and mentorship thrown at you because of your race in my opinion not only makes bitter soldiers who deserve the higher rank but ungrateful ones that are picking up the "handouts"

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 10:22 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 10:22:10 -0400

I've never been one to give much attention to studies and graphs. It is possible and it does happen that any set of inputs can be skewed to present whatever view you wish to display. That fact has been shown repeatedly in peer reviewed studies, of course! Be that as it may, the numbers say the percentage of black officers in the Army apparently doesn't match the percentage of black enlisted. I can think of a couple of ways to improve the situation. 1. Promote from within. The Navy calls these types of officers (enlisted to officer) "Mustangs" - some of the best officers I've served with have been Mustangs. 2. Change the rules for recruiting. Give the higher points (or whatever the Army uses) to finding that "gold nugget". For those that rely on using the statistical approach to recruiting - this would appear as a total failure. Most of your professional recruiters will avoid this at all costs - after all recruiting is nothing more than a numbers game.

Personally, the promote from within approach allows the Army to deal with known entities with proven records, which is sometimes a better deal.

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Oct 25 at 2014 10:50 AM

SPC James Mcneil — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 10:50:53 -0400

Here's an idea. The Army could utilize something known as the "veil of ignorance" in which the age, gender, and other facts about the officer to be promoted are not known. They could literally say, "We have candidate 1 who has these qualifications, candidate 2 who has these" and so forth. If you don't know their names, you won't know these demographic specific things about them. Then you can promote them only on their qualifications.

Response by SSG William Patton made Oct 25 at 2014 6:06 PM

SSG William Patton — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 18:06:38 -0400

Finding qualified officers among minorities has long been a problem. All one has to do is look at the criminal statistics for young minority males and see that nearly two thirds have had some contact with the criminal justice system by the time they are 24 years old. That issue alone drastically reduces the potential officer pool greatly. I have to agree with PO Medley in a later post where he said promote from within the Army. I have served with and under excellent minority NCOs and these soldiers would make great officers. Like George, I have served under Mustangs and they have been the best officers in my opinion. These NCOs have paid their dues and are better leaders that some ACGs I have met.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Oct 25 at 2014 8:02 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 20:02:16 -0400

The more society keeps "legitimizing" these statistics, the greater the divide and debate become. Then we start talking quotas, lowering standards to meet quotas, equal opportunity, etc., etc., etc... Haven't we been around this block too many times? We recruit people to join the armed forces because it's something they want to do, believe they should do and qualify to do. Ethnic and racial recruiting - what are we supposed to offer each separate group that's different from other groups to increase the number of enlistments from that group? We recruit in public places that all people go to, we assign ethnic recruiters to go into neighborhoods and events to target specific groups. If the interest is not there what do we do? As a company commander I and my fellow commanders got fragged monthly because recruiting numbers were never where state wanted them to be. State put together a minority recruiting board which when combined with the full and part time recruiting efforts yielded nothing more than what we were bringing in. Why, because we couldn't give any one group anything more or less than another group - there are no special racial or ethnic based recruiting packages and benefits. You have to offer everyone the same opportunities and benefits, no matter what language and what neighborhoods you do it in.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 25 at 2014 10:15 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 25 Oct 2014 22:15:02 -0400

Estoy listo para mi capitán. I mean I am ready for my Captain bars.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 26 at 2014 9:05 AM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Oct 2014 09:05:10 -0400

I don't want to be that guy, BUT in this day and age it seems like the minorities around here ARE the white people. So first can we classify a minority definitively? That point aside so what really it doesn't matter if you are black, white, brown, green, purple, blue or orange. If you are qualified you are qualified a standard is a standard. In a perfect world there is only ONE. I am tired of race/ ethnicity having so much to do with everything in this day and age. For example on a civil service test you automatically get 10 points for "equal" opportunity in some areas. Is that worth 10 extra points when you did nothing to achieve that? If your getting less officers than required there are other options to replenish those ranks rather than bend the standard and push for minorities.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 9 at 2014 3:51 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 09 Nov 2014 15:51:26 -0500

Why are we so concerned with race? Does it really matter that much the color of somebody's skin, ethnic background, etc? Aren't we supposed to see through those things and focus on the "right person for the job?"

Response by CPT Alexander Grant made May 7 at 2015 9:57 PM

CPT Alexander Grant — Thu, 07 May 2015 21:57:26 -0400

So there is a pretty significant movement happening in the civilian world, corporate America, where successful companies are striving for better diversity because it is statistically shown to lead to higher performing teams. On Rally Point, everyone is so focused on defending the idea of "Best Qualified" that many comments are pretty much "race doesn't matter at all for anything!"

On a higher level, I wonder how large a difference there is in military thinking vs civilian business thinking. Is the military SO different from all other organizations, that diversity wouldn't have the same positive benefits?

Response by SSgt Russell Stevens made Mar 25 at 2019 7:24 PM

SSgt Russell Stevens — Mon, 25 Mar 2019 19:24:30 -0400

It's a poor decision to promote anyone for simply being a minority. If said candidate has the qualifications and experience necessary then by all means promote that candidate. Open additional opportunities for those that didn't make the grade, in the future there will be qualifications and experience.