What types of treatment have worked for you for concussive injuries to your arms from being taught to "fire while driving"?

PV2 Kristie Wyant-Byington — Fri, 10 Jun 2022 08:18:09 -0400

88Ms & other drivers, have concussive injuries to your arms from being taught to "fire while driving"? If so, has anything been done for you? 16 years of pain, further work after injury & I'm ready to cut my arms off myself, it hurts so much. I've been denied 6 times by the VA. What worked for you to get help?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2022 4:35 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 10 Jun 2022 16:35:39 -0400

Ok. I have to call bullshit. You're saying that you were trained 16 years ago to shoot and drive as an 88M and that you've been dealing with the concussive pain of that tactic for the last 16 years? Yet in your post of "Correct Etiquette" posted on 7 May 2022 you were asking about proper etiquette for saluting a GO with all hands full. In that post, you led to the illusion, by the manner in which you asked, that this particular Officer engagement had just recently occurred. And now, here you are talking about concussive pain from being trained to shoot and drive? I've been doing the Army for a very long damn 24 years of time, and nowhere in those years have I ever come across driver's training where we were instructed to shoot and drive. The common sense level of risk for that "training" alone is too much for any commander worth their weight to allow. The operations of military vehicles normally require the use of both hands. Especially them big vehicles, like the HETT. Conclusion: You're not what you are projecting yourself to be. And this leads to my secondary conclusion that this is why you've been denied by the VA 6 times. I mean, seriously. If concussive injuries were of a real concern, then the VA would be getting claims from EVERYONE that has served. Let's look at the facts. The standard M-16 or even M-4 are too long really to effectively fire from a vehicle window one handed. Let's not forget that their recoil is NOT THAT HARD. Now, taking into account a sidearm like the M9, seriously....there is no damn way that could cause concussive injuries. It has less recoil than the M-16.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Jun 10 at 2022 9:47 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Fri, 10 Jun 2022 21:47:29 -0400

Even the AF guy knows there isn't a single small arms platform in the inventory that would cause "concussive injury" to your arms by "firing while driving" as the only practical weapon for that would be the M9. The M-4 and M-16 also lack the recoil force necessary to cause "concussive injury". Furthermore, I've been around the block a time or twelve and have NEVER encountered a single solitary other person who claims to have the injuries you've described. As your profile appears to be that of an unverified member, I question the very authenticity of the account as something the Admins need to investigate.

Response by SPC James Neidig made Jun 11 at 2022 1:57 AM

SPC James Neidig — Sat, 11 Jun 2022 01:57:25 -0400

As an 88 M we were Never Trained To Fire out the windows, That would be Dumb Even IF You Are Wearing Double Hearing Protection! The Sound In The Confined Space Would Be Too Loud, We Were Trained to Let the Gun Trucks Lay Down Suppressive Fire, While We Got the Hell Out Of Dodge! The Only Time You Picked Up Your Weapon Was When You Dismounted.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Jun 11 at 2022 8:26 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:26:44 -0400

As a CSM over units deployed to combat, and having been the Senior Enlisted Leader over training in USAEUR this type of training never occurred. Even if a local commander had initiated it, it is nothing that would have been allowed on any firing range. Further, as stated earlier, the recoil of assigned individual weapons would not account for such an injury.

I am not challenging your integrity as I do not personally know you, I recommend you have your doctor evaluate your arms for what is truly wrong with them.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 11 at 2022 8:56 AM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sat, 11 Jun 2022 08:56:25 -0400

https://rallypoint.force.com/Support/s/article/how-do-i-verify-my-account-2020-03-13-10-21-35

Verify your account, We can go from there.

Bottom line, all that have responded, have done so, as your story is unbelievable..
For many reasons....

That said there are idiots in the Army and one of them could have conceivable been dumb enough to "train" you to fire out the window of a moving vehicle while driving..and not get caught..I can not envision how, with other leadership and Soldiers on the range, the RSO, the Officer or senior NCO in charge, ect ect ect. But sure it is possible someone that dumb was in the Army at some point. I never met them, never heard of them, and would have assisted them in leaving the army if I had.

And while you may very well have some injury in your arms.....I do not think you will convince anyone, military or civilian that has fired 1 round or hundreds of thousands of rounds from an M16 or an M4, M9 that they produced an injury as you think they have. But again who knows, perhaps you have a genetic or otherwise organic physical condition that allowed you to be injured in a way no other has ever had happen to them.

Please verfy your account

RallyPoint Support Center

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2022 1:40 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jun 2022 01:40:17 -0400

None of our windows opened on anything except humvee's in Afghanistan
I drove mraps and hmmts. If I fired out the windows while driving, I would be the only casualty.
I

Response by SGT Dave Tracy made Jun 13 at 2022 4:57 PM

SGT Dave Tracy — Mon, 13 Jun 2022 16:57:22 -0400

I wouldn't categorically exclude the possibility of it being true--as "hip-pocket training"...maybe--and I don't pretend to be Mr. All-Army-Knowledge-Knower, particularly about things that occurred prior to my time, but I think I will join the ranks for those questioning the veracity of this "training".

I spend 3 years as an 11B (mech no less) and 5 years as an 88M, and at NO TIME did anyone ever conduct such training. Further, I certainly never heard of it as having EVER been part of training doctrine for an 88M. Convoys might roll out with gun trucks, but they wouldn't have Private Snuffy popping shots out the window, missing everything and exposing himself and his driver.

The only time I ever fired anything from a moving vehicle while in training was when I was a Brad Gunner. In a training environment, I certainly was never trained to shoot my rifle out the window of a military vehicle--of which I drove or rode in many--though when it comes to questionable "hip-pocket training", I was given pointers on how to climb out of the M915A5 and get to the back deck over the wheels to drop a deuce while maintaining movement.

I wouldn't recommend it.

Response by SSG Adrian Walker made Jul 26 at 2022 12:04 AM

SSG Adrian Walker — Tue, 26 Jul 2022 00:04:02 -0400

Hang on a minute, I was a Ma,Duce operator in Iraq for 2 years and I became very good friends with her during that time, I must have changed her barrel at least 1/2 a dozen times due to her getting "slagged " my fault but she saved my life a few times along with the other people in my convoys. I have an occasional twinge in my elbows when the whether changes but I just attribute it to recoil and don't worry about it, I went in 1997 and never got trained in shooting while driving. But I don't think I ever got a good cookie award either, I was always off at some school or something like that when SHARP showed up. Plausible deniability.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2022 11:54 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 28 Jul 2022 23:54:48 -0400

???Never heard of “concussive injuries” to the arms from firing a weapon? WTF?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 6 at 2022 11:34 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 06 Sep 2022 11:34:09 -0400

ME NEXT ME NEXT!!! Deployed in combat on the triple 7 with LMTVs. Guess they forgot to teach us the ol' shoot across your driver trick. Pretty sure that's why there is a giant hole in the roof of the cab. You know, for 50 cals and such. I did get this awesome visual of a pissed off drill sergeant driving a vehicle up to the range just to teach you, and only you, to shoot out of the cab because you have t-rex arms or whatever. Question for you. Was it inconvenient for your unit to have to follow you around in combat (Noticed your unit was deployed at the time you were there so I assumed you were there too) with an LMTV so you could jump in at the first sign of trouble and return fire? I imagine it got on Army WTF a couple times huh? Also, PRIVATE, I imagine there is a reason you are still a PV2 16 years later. You're talking a lot of disrespect to people that have been doing this longer than you and were initially trying to help. Some advice for you, in the future, when you lie to the VA and try to get actual soldiers to go along with that lie, do some homework. Unlike you, we live this stuff. Good luck changing tampons with your stubby arms. Maybe call up Capt. Newson and have him help?