Are the CSM's actions I witnessed in a barber shop today unprofessional?

2016-01-30T18:00:51-05:00

So today, I was in the barbershop waiting to get my haircut. There was four guys from my unit, and three others from a different one. Everyone in there was enlisted. A CSM comes storming in and asks one of the guys from the other unit what they were doing in there. The soldier did not stand at parade rest, when answering the CSM. Which caused the CSM to say something along the lines of "Yeah, just sit on your ass when you're talking to me, that's exactly what you should do". All this is in front of other soldiers and civilians, including the barber whom wasn't any military related at all, just a normal union worker. Anyways, they all stand up to the proper position and answer the CSM, and he continues on getting on to them. Apparently their unit wasn't supposed to be in that area of Polk for some reason.

My question is, do you view it unprofessional for a senior NCO to come in yelling at soldiers and cussing, right there in a public place especially in front of civilians. Cause I do. There's other ways and place to handle that at.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 6:02 PM

2016-01-30T18:02:07-05:00

And I do understand the soldiers asked for the ass chewing by not abiding by customs and courtesies.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 6:04 PM

2016-01-30T18:04:31-05:00

It is inappropriate. There are other ways for the CSM to address the soldiers failure to abide by the customs and courtesies than to act like a fool in front of civilians.

Response by SN Greg Wright made Jan 30 at 2016 6:06 PM

2016-01-30T18:06:00-05:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member If this is the worst thing that happens to you today....You'll be alright.

Response by LTC Stephen F. made Jan 30 at 2016 6:07 PM

2016-01-30T18:07:54-05:00

Yes SGT Private RallyPoint Member, I think it was unprofessional for a senior NCO to go into a barber shop and yell at soldiers and cuss, right there in a public place especially in front of civilians.
The fact that it occurred on post apparently may be a mitigating circumstance for the CSM's actions.

Response by SSG(P) John Newcomb made Jan 30 at 2016 6:09 PM

2016-01-30T18:09:23-05:00

No. It's called discipline. And those Soldiers were found lacking.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 6:11 PM

2016-01-30T18:11:22-05:00

I always liked a phrase I heard once in a situation like that. The senior person just said, "you'll hear me better when you stand up,".

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Jan 30 at 2016 6:48 PM

2016-01-30T18:48:11-05:00

If you have to scream to get people to listen, you're probably not worth listening to..

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 7:13 PM

2016-01-30T19:13:02-05:00

It was very unprofessional. Maybe he is one of those pompous windbags that likes to hear themselves scream at people because they want to be important. Idiot!

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 30 at 2016 7:16 PM

2016-01-30T19:16:30-05:00

He could have pulled them out of the barbershop and then chew them out at the parking lot and that's probably just for courtesy towards the civilian employee. The Soldiers were given direct orders which they clearly violated and more specifically if the CSM clearly IDs them/has to look for them. Besides that, it is what it is, they are in the Army, the will survive.

Response by CSM William Payne made Jan 30 at 2016 7:30 PM

2016-01-30T19:30:48-05:00

I'm going to make the assumption that this is a military barbershop because it is on Fort Polk. If it is I'm sure the barber or other civilians present would not have been too bothered by the CSM's remarks or demeanor. Not approving nor disapproving of the CSMs behavior, but having served as one of the senior CSMs in the Army Reserve I have heard and personally been on the receiving end of much worse by CSMs senior to myself and General Officers in settings where I may not have thought appropriate. That's just how some people communicate. Don't take it personally. Considerate it a learning experience to file away as to how you will personally act or not act if one day you find yourself in a similar situation as the senior Soldier. I used lessons I learned from my Drill Sergeant throughout my 40 year career.

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Jan 31 at 2016 12:44 AM

2016-01-31T00:44:49-05:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member, I agree. It should have been handled better, especially in a civilian business place.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Jan 31 at 2016 1:08 AM

2016-01-31T01:08:06-05:00

It sounds to me like the CSM actually restrained himself.

Lets see... not standing at Parade Rest for a SNCO (though as a Navy guy I still find it weird that the Army stands at Parade Rest when speaking to a SNCO or officer. In the Navy we're not allowed to talk at Parade Rest) and disobeying orders by being in a restricted area of the base.

Sometimes an ass chewing is warranted. And let's be honest. It was on base, so I really don't give a damn what civilians think of military discipline. I'm also willing to bet most of those civilians were veterans and/or had been working on base long enough to see more than a few CSM's chew out a Soldier.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2016 4:45 AM

2016-01-31T04:45:09-05:00

Well, the soldiers were on base. That is the CSM's domain. The civilians have probably seen similar incidences many times. That is part of the expectation of a civilian working on a military base. In fact, those civilians might even have been laughing at the situation once all the soldiers had left.

Response by 1SG David Niles made Jan 31 at 2016 5:59 AM

2016-01-31T05:59:07-05:00

Yes and know, the CSM should have called the most senior person of the group out and talked to him, and if the young troop did not know how to talk to a CSM then the ass chewing could have commensed

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2016 2:16 PM

2016-01-31T14:16:54-05:00

There is a time and a place for a Senior NCO to have a case of the ass.
Troops not doing what there supposed to be doing often earns a sharp rebuke.
Soldiers not really giving heed to being addressed by a SNCO will nearly always draw fire from all but the most laid back NCOs... the kind that walk by and pretend they didn't see something that was wrong.
As a SNCO myself, I don't make it a habit to publicly chew out a Soldier. It is just not how I typically operate. But if I do, I can assure you that it was well and truly earned.

Response by CSM Felipe Mendez made Jan 31 at 2016 4:10 PM

2016-01-31T16:10:11-05:00

I am not sure of what really happened that day, but for what you described in your comments, soldiers did not supposed to be in the area (off limit). All enlisted soldiers know that when they are approached by a senior enlisted NCO they assumed the parade dress stand unless dismissed by the senior enlisted soldier NCO. This are customs and courtesies that all service members must abide by to maintain them for future generations. Soldier in the CSM unit knew how he would react when approach them, so they should of immediately stand up and render the military courtesy. I do not agree of anyone cursing at soldiers, but if all he said was "Yeah, just sit on your ass when you're talking to me, that's exactly what you should do" I do not see anything wrong with it. There is worse language shown in the TVs, movies, and soldiers break areas than that used by this CSM. As a previous leader while in the military, I expected of those junior to me stand in parade dress and in addition demand the same of all my NCOs to do the same with their junior Soldier. At the same time, I showed the same respect for the leaders above my position such as BDE CSM, DIV CSM, CORP CSM etc. Soldiers gave me the respect and I showed them the same. One day you will be in the NCO chain of responsibility and will expect the same treatment as this CSM did and I expect/hope that you hold the junior rank to the same standards that you were held. You as a soldier must understand that “on the Spot” correction is what it is. On the Spot. Maybe the CSM could use difference approach, can’t say because I was not there. You can use this as a teaching tool and do it differently when you approach soldier for on the “Spot” correction. Stay focus and wish you the best. Thanks for your great service and dedication to our great soldiers and our great Nation.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2016 7:05 PM

2016-01-31T19:05:31-05:00

I absolutely must.... What say you, CSM Private RallyPoint Member? :)

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2016 7:37 PM

2016-01-31T19:37:26-05:00

All you had to say was SM didn't get up and go to parade rest for a CSM and to me his response was perfectly warranted.
This isn't a thing of brown nosing. This is basic military bearing and basic situational awareness.
All you've describe, from what I can see, is a CSM correcting some jacked up enlisted soldiers. So I'd say he's perfectly in the right and if your grievances are the fact he said "just sit on your ass when you're talking to me." Then I hate to tell you my man.... The Army is a vulgar place. You might wanna thicken up your skin some.

Also They were not supposed to be on that side of post? Then what the hell were they doing there?
See how all this is jacked up? Just a story of a bunch of jr soldiers not doing what they're supposed at the very basic level of the military and getting corrected for it.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 31 at 2016 9:46 PM

2016-01-31T21:46:33-05:00

Nope, sometimes you need to emphasis your point. You can't let the soldier he was talking to just speak to a CSM like it was his buddy. I think that would be far more unprofessional.

Response by SFC Joseph Weber made Jan 31 at 2016 10:51 PM

2016-01-31T22:51:16-05:00

I didn't worry to much about a SNCOs professionalism when I was a SP4. If a pissed off CSM showed up I would just go to parade rest. If it was directed at me I would I would stand there and take it and react to whatever he was saying. Someone else I would try to get out of the area. If ass is what you consider cussing then the Army has gotten very gentle since I retired.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 12:55 AM

2016-02-01T00:55:08-05:00

All senior NCOs should be as professional as possible. Could have the leader addressed it just as sternly and more professional? Yes... However, the level of dignity and respect you extend to Soldiers is often perceived differently, and sometimes lower enlisted folks are just a little too brittle...

Response by Cpl Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 2:06 AM

2016-02-01T02:06:17-05:00

Well, maybe this soldier shouldnt have sat on his ass while talking to a SGTMAJ, that is very disrespectful to him. If this was on a military base then the barber is probably used to it by now. So I guess my answer would be no, it is not unprofessional.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 1 at 2016 7:13 AM

2016-02-01T07:13:20-05:00

SGT Private RallyPoint Member I'll be more worried about the Soldier not assuming the proper position when addressed by an NCO (specially a CSM) than a sitting on your ass comment by the CSM. What you could do next time is after the CSM leaves, grab that other Soldier and remind him about customs and courtesies.

Response by CSM Richard StCyr made Feb 1 at 2016 9:13 AM

2016-02-01T09:13:23-05:00

Gee, I used to stand and greet, and then stand at ease for CSMs who held senior slots to me and as a civilian I stand and greet people who are older than me, and never felt belittled its common courtesy to stand and greet people where I grew up military courtesy aside. Also being an older soldier the CSMs/ SGts were not sensitive to feelings when I was a PVT through SPC and sitting down if a SGT, let alone a CSM was speaking to us was close to insane, and a sure way to invoke an escalation of force incident regardless of where you were. I'd say the soldiers didn't fare to badly. Personally I used to just ask the troops if they had, had a rough day and forgot they were in the Army, the sarcasm usually got the result without the drama; but that's my personality. Moral of the story is; extend the proper respect and you will receive respect.

Response by SFC Thomas Howes made Feb 1 at 2016 2:30 PM

2016-02-01T14:30:14-05:00

I would have walked in ask the soldiers to come out side take them some place out of site then chewed there ass

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 4 at 2016 3:32 PM

2016-02-04T15:32:50-05:00

Yesterday my Staff Duty Runner got a similar reception when I walked in the headquarters at 0430. He looked up and said, "Good morning Sergeant Major", but never stood up or called at ease. I fixed the problem.

Butt chewing should be infrequent in our Army, but there is a time and a place for them. Unfortunately many in this younger generation seem to think that they have a right not to be offended, and look at getting chewed out as offensive. These folks would have had a hard time in the Army I joined 28 years ago.

Response by CSM Larry Allen made Feb 4 at 2016 6:18 PM

2016-02-04T18:18:25-05:00

They were for sure not at their place of duty and demonstrated lack of discipline by not standing at parade rest for the CSM. I am loyal, I stand with my fellow CSM. I also would have found their immediate supervisor and asked why he lost accountability of his troops and how it is going to be fixed so it doesn't happen in the future. Lessons learned. Maybe the barber shop was their safe place. Smiling.

Response by MSG(P) Rafael Aguilera made Feb 6 at 2016 11:06 PM

2016-02-06T23:06:02-05:00

No he was not unprofessional.
1) He is a CSM correcting troops.
2) The Soldiers were in an unauthorized are put out by their command.
3) You don't know the history of those Soldiers either.

If you think that there should be a filter on everyone's mouth; you may want to look at getting a filter for your ears. Some younger generation Soldiers only respond to some one dropping an F bomb at them before they decide to move into high gear' this is a leadership challenge to learn who and when that is needed. If you put strips on and NEVER cuss at a Soldier, please advise me.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 9 at 2016 8:01 AM

2016-02-09T08:01:34-05:00

Young Soldier you might want to check down not up in this situation. In my 24 years of service I never made the decision to sit on my rear when I was speaking with a Soldier senior in rank. It is called discipline and many young troopers lack it. I considered it a honor for a CSM to even speak to me as a young E4, even if it was to put a boot up my rear. I took it as him/ her actually caring about me an my career. They are very lucky that the CSM did not have them out front of the barber shop doing police call for 12 hours for being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Wait, I forgot they can't do that in the new Army. Got to give the babies time to eat and a warming tent. Again check down not up on this one.

Response by CSM Thomas McGarry made May 1 at 2016 5:03 PM

2016-05-01T17:03:09-04:00

No1