Are National Guardsmen allowed to qualify with their personal M-4, so that I don't have people changing my sights?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:35:47 -0400

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2016 8:38 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:38:05 -0400

No, would they allow you deploy with your own personal weapon? no , does your M4 have burst or auto more than likely not.

Response by TSgt William Meyer made Jun 12 at 2016 8:45 PM

TSgt William Meyer — Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:45:00 -0400

In every guard/reserve unit I was in I was always assigned a weapon, and that's the one I took whenever we qualified or went on AT, I wouldn't worry about someone messing with your sights. Having personal weapons in the armory is defiantly a no go in the Guard.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Jun 12 at 2016 8:47 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:47:32 -0400

DA PAM 350-38 STRAC states that all DA Soldiers will qualify with their assigned weapon every 6 months. All Army Reserve and National Guard units will qualify with their assigned weapon every 12 months.

You will notice the applicable word there is ASSIGNED

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2016 8:57 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jun 2016 20:57:53 -0400

No you can't. It must be your assigned weapon from the army

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2016 9:09 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jun 2016 21:09:46 -0400

Negative. You must use your US Army assigned weapon. And before you ask, ESTs don't count either

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2016 9:54 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 12 Jun 2016 21:54:40 -0400

Most supply units assign you a weapon that you will zero and draw each time you have a activity requiring it.

A good idea if you have a issued weapon is document the serial and stock number so next time you can draw your assigned weapon.

Response by SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2016 2:36 AM

SPC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 02:36:20 -0400

I have old 11B's in my unit that were deploying frequently and his CO allowed them to use their personal sights (EOTech... fill in the blank) to qualify with.

Response by MGySgt James Forward made Jun 13 at 2016 6:31 AM

MGySgt James Forward — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 06:31:53 -0400

Not even gonna touch this one...leaving it right there...stepping back...Semper Fi.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Jun 13 at 2016 9:08 AM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:08:03 -0400

1) The responses that I have seen here are correct, has to be Army issued, and your assigned weapon. 2) Here is the issue. For some reason, that I can't understand, every unit I have been in the National Guard has changed the weapons roster thousands of times in a month. I will have butt number 13, then 38, then 102 then 2. for some reason the supply sergeant and the full time staff change the lists. They have nothing to do apparently. LOL They will do them by butt number, then change the list and not the weapons by alphabetical name order, then leave the names and change the weapons to numerical order, then change the list because the team leaders need the 203 and instead of changing just the weapons, they change the whole list again, on and on and on. It's crazy!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2016 9:48 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 09:48:51 -0400

You've gotten some good answers here so I'm not going to address that anymore. Here is what I'm going to address specifically to the second part of your question.
PMI 101.
Q. What is the one of the very first things you are going to do prior to start zeroing?
A. You will set your (or any weapon for that matter that you will be shooting) to Battle Sight Zero.

Now what USED to happen(haven't seen it in a very long time). Is once you are zero'd you would write your zero i.e.: Up 5 Left 2 on a sticky label and it would go in the hollow of your handgrip. So next time you drew your assigned weapon all you had to do was go back to Battle Sight Zero and adjust to what you shot last time. If you zero'd correctly last time you were good to go the next time.

Response by CSM David Heidke made Jun 13 at 2016 10:10 AM

CSM David Heidke — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 10:10:51 -0400

Zeroing a weapon is passe...

Since I didn't have an assigned M4/M16/blunderbuss, nor had the time to spend on the range zeroing one. I would go to the range and wait for the first Expert firer, ask for his/her weapon, then qualify with it. I would usually qualify Expert with it.

You should be able to qualify with any weapon really.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2016 6:18 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 13 Jun 2016 18:18:01 -0400

any waepon anytime, in the reserves you never new who fired it last, you do pmcs, clean it and zero it

Response by SGT Andrew Sherman made Jun 15 at 2016 11:15 AM

SGT Andrew Sherman — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:15:14 -0400

The Swiss would go a step further and issue a weapon to each citizen after training them to use it. No wonder nobody invades them. http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/switzerland.asp

Gun Ownership in Switzerland

Switzerland issues firearms to adult men and provides training in their use?

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 11:23 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:23:00 -0400

I don't agree with it at all. However on the active side I know the CO can approve The use of POWs for deployments and ranges.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 11:37 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:37:26 -0400

Seen it done before, mainly E-6 and above. Why not ask your command rather than Rallypoint who would have no idea what your commander would deem ok. A couple of my guys deployed with their personal weapons. Id rather have a milspec with 3 round burst and that I know is made to perform under high heat and a cheaper AR barrel could be sub par for combat situations.

Response by CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 11:54 AM

CPL(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 11:54:24 -0400

Yes, you can, but it won't fit the requirement for qualifying with your assigned weapon. That being said, a range card is a range card and if it looks legit, your ops may or may not care where it came from.

Response by SSG Joseph Henderson made Jun 15 at 2016 12:12 PM

SSG Joseph Henderson — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:12:55 -0400

Even if someone did mess with it you should be able to rezero within 9 rounds anyway. All the times I went to the range the first thing everyone did was confirm zero of the weapon. If you do what others recommend with writing down your zero from battle sight zero you will have a starting point every time you go to the range with that weapon. Have fun firing.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 12:16 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:16:05 -0400

What unit are you with? Who is your PSG?

Response by PO1 Daniel Morren made Jun 15 at 2016 12:32 PM

PO1 Daniel Morren — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:32:06 -0400

Thing is in my reserve unit you were given five rounds to sight the weapon in and then you start qualifying. You get a rifle that the last person used. Most of the time it was so far off you were not getting it right in five rounds. I shot five rounds calculated were I need to aim and qualified expert every time. We do not get the same weapon every time. This is not active duty were you are issued a weapon.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 12:50 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 12:50:08 -0400

It really should not matter if someone else adjusts your zero. If you have it memorized (like you should), you simply ensure it is accurate

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 1:00 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 13:00:48 -0400

I miss the old days of weapons cards. I used to get the same one every time now everything is digital and they get handed out first come first serve

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 2:46 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 14:46:16 -0400

If someone else touched my weapon I'd fuckin kill them with it!!!

Response by Sgt Jamie Grippin made Jun 15 at 2016 3:58 PM

Sgt Jamie Grippin — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 15:58:28 -0400

Just NO

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 5:17 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 17:17:10 -0400

No, are you in the National Guard, or the Mayberry militia.... Why would you even bring that kind of topic up in a public forum? Do you have NCOs in your unit? Asking something like this is embarrassing, they may retrain you.... I hope that they retrain you.... For a long time.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 5:17 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 17:17:49 -0400

First off, no. Second off... how'd you get an M4? Our are you mistaking your AR15 with an M4? They might be similar weapons in many ways, but they definitely aren't the same.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 15 at 2016 6:20 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 18:20:36 -0400

I think the Marine Corps should issue you a weapon and you keep that one for the time you are in service. No getting a new one each time you pcs or change units. Yours goes with you. Rifleman's creed.

The answer to the question though....no.

Response by SGT Mathew Husen made Jun 15 at 2016 9:13 PM

SGT Mathew Husen — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 21:13:45 -0400

When your state side it doesnt matter if your sight gets changed all the time because every time you go to the range your weapon gets zero'd anyway.

Response by SFC Don Ward made Jun 15 at 2016 10:18 PM

SFC Don Ward — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 22:18:15 -0400

A "personal" M-4 is ILLEGAL! One cannot own, without proper ATF license, an actual M-4. One may own an AR -15 in short barrel (M-4) configuration.

Response by CPL Jay Strickland made Jun 15 at 2016 11:00 PM

CPL Jay Strickland — Wed, 15 Jun 2016 23:00:19 -0400

No you qualify with a generic weapon that you will take to war if deployed. Not the tricked out M4 you use to shoot the wings off of flies.

Response by 1stSgt Brant Young made Jun 16 at 2016 3:50 PM

1stSgt Brant Young — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 15:50:51 -0400

All I can say is, this is a joke, right? To paraphrase a famous movie, I think I am stupider having read your question.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 16 at 2016 9:35 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 21:35:27 -0400

I suggest you check with your NCO's. I'm sure the will have the right answer for you.

Response by SSG Charles Lovelace made Jun 16 at 2016 10:08 PM

SSG Charles Lovelace — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 22:08:23 -0400

I truly believe the fine art of marksma ship is gone. Unfortunately if it were easy enough to just being in your own weapon and fire life would be great, except the fact that it hasn't been inspected by an armorer. This is kind of an overlooked step for many.

Response by Cpl Caleb Johnson made Jun 16 at 2016 10:33 PM

Cpl Caleb Johnson — Thu, 16 Jun 2016 22:33:25 -0400

Are you shitting me!? Private Pyle, if God wanted you to qualify with your personal M4, he would have given you the testicles to be a Marine. Go punch yourself in what passes for your dick and enlist in the Corps. You will get yourself un-assed!

Response by SPC Christian Valenti made Jun 17 at 2016 10:16 AM

SPC Christian Valenti — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 10:16:21 -0400

Only if it's a ghost gun that "has the ability with a .30-caliber clip to disperse with 30 bullets within half a second. Thirty magazine clip in half a second.”

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2016 2:08 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 14:08:29 -0400

What does your personal M4 (or whatever it is really called) have to do with military issued sights. Your gear that is issued to you is what you have to use. If you are taking issued optics (a sensitive item) home, your unit is dead wrong. They are supposed to be secured in the arms room. I am not sure what answer you are looking for, with the minimal details that you are providing. I know the Guard sometimes fudges stuff, but Army regulations are very specific and apply to the guard.

Response by Cpl Jeffrey Walker made Jun 17 at 2016 4:12 PM

Cpl Jeffrey Walker — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:12:12 -0400

Question: do you mean your personally owned AR-15, or the M-4 personally assigned to you by the Armory?

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 17 at 2016 4:17 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 16:17:15 -0400

BLUFF: NO. Personal weapons are not authorized to qualify or deploy with.

1) even though a commercial AR, even one that is kept pretty much milspec, is 90% M4, that 10% makes a world of difference. The difference in barrel length alone (14.5" vs 16") will cause POA/POI shifts (albeit minor).
2) you should already know the DOPE settings of your sights. While every rifle may have individual quirks that may affect POA/POI, your DOPE should get your sights back to point to where it is close to your normal zero and are able to refine shot POI fairly easily.
3) if you have a personally owned AR, great! Use it to practice fundamentals. THAT will get you more bang for your buck than trying to bring that rifle to a qual range. Fundamentals transcends the specific weapon in your hand.

Response by LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2016 5:48 PM

LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 17:48:35 -0400

Absolutely not. You qualify with the weapon you go to war with. And it won't be with your personal weapon.

Response by CPL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2016 10:43 PM

CPL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:43:32 -0400

Won't talk sh#t but come on. Really?!?!?!?! Just common sense, you are in a military unit, you are required to use military grade/APPROVED equipment.

Response by CPL Patrick Brewbaker made Jun 17 at 2016 10:55 PM

CPL Patrick Brewbaker — Fri, 17 Jun 2016 22:55:06 -0400

AR M16, AR M16, No! Go to the rifle range flip your you long range site and set your 300 yard dope on you own time and teach your kids and wife.

Response by SGT Sean Moore made Jun 18 at 2016 1:47 AM

SGT Sean Moore — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 01:47:45 -0400

Stupid f*cking question and idea! Are you going to deploy with your personally owned rifle.... NO! Zero & sight in you're privately owned weapon on your own time. Zero & qualify with you issued weapon that you'll deploy with. If a unit is worth it's metal they'll have you verify your zero right before deploying or in theater like we did in Kuwait before crossing the burm into Iraq.

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2016 11:19 AM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 11:19:03 -0400

No dummy

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2016 1:09 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 13:09:49 -0400

Stupid.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2016 5:44 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 17:44:00 -0400

Do some research on our own before coming here with a dumbass question like that. God damn . . . Some peoples' kids.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2016 7:21 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 19:21:39 -0400

Kill me... please...

Response by SGT Anthony Stiefel made Jun 18 at 2016 8:31 PM

SGT Anthony Stiefel — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 20:31:47 -0400

This guy probably got issued an M68 and doesn't want to qualify with it. Can't say I blame him honestly.
When I was active our armorer was cool with us checking out just the weapon and not the optic, then people would slap their own gear on there and go. I mean either way everything is bound to you by serial numbers, unless a new commander wants to "Shake things up".....

Response by MSgt Richey Leamer made Jun 18 at 2016 9:09 PM

MSgt Richey Leamer — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 21:09:17 -0400

In the 80's. You wrote down your battlesight zero. So you could pick up any m-16, and quickly put you on point. And I was Army Aviation.. #WTF?

Response by AB Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 18 at 2016 10:22 PM

AB Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 18 Jun 2016 22:22:33 -0400

Response by SFC Brian Gillum made Jun 19 at 2016 3:14 PM

SFC Brian Gillum — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 15:14:57 -0400

No.

End of response. No further inquiry along this line will be responded to.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2016 3:41 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 15:41:08 -0400

The answer is No.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2016 5:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 17:36:12 -0400

Are you upset you get the opportunity to fire more rounds for free? Go zero, have fun, qualify, have fun.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 19 at 2016 5:39 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 19 Jun 2016 17:39:43 -0400

Are you upset you get the opportunity to fire more rounds for free? Go zero, qualify, and enjoy. Don't complain about something so small a matter. Life is full of inconveniences, this shouldn't be made an issue.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Aug 16 at 2016 8:10 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 08:10:01 -0400

No, you should have one that is assigned to you and us that one only.

Response by SSG Mike Zientek made Aug 16 at 2016 1:30 PM

SSG Mike Zientek — Tue, 16 Aug 2016 13:30:18 -0400

No.
That would defeat the purpose of Soldiers and their gear being somewhat interchangeable.
Your position is being run over by insurgents.
Your personal weapon is lost or malfunctioning.
So you can't fire a weapon, cause your weapon is gone?
You are injured and you lose both arms. No one else can pick up your weapon to defend you cause they might have to adjust your sights?
That's great if you can kill 100 enemy with your weapons and your sights and accessories, with 100 rounds.
But if you can only kill 27 enemy with 100 rounds from your buddy's Govt Issue weapon, then you are no expert.
Train for the worst of conditions.

Response by SFC Daniel McIntire made Aug 17 at 2016 5:37 AM

SFC Daniel McIntire — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 05:37:06 -0400

NO! Basic rifle marksmanship provides instruction so a soldier can take any issued weapon and operate it correctly. It's a soldiers responsibility to question sight changes so that soldier can learn to conduct sight corrections.

Response by SFC Daniel McIntire made Aug 17 at 2016 5:50 AM

SFC Daniel McIntire — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 05:50:37 -0400

NO, NO, NO! Basic rifle marksmanship provides instruction to operate your assigned weapon (M-16A4 or M-4). Why, so you can operate any M-4/M16A4. Learning to adjust sights is a level 1 skill. Consult with your squad leader and/or section sergeant immediately.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 1:28 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 13:28:15 -0400

Officially no, but it really depends on your leadership. It isn't the strangest thing I've seen in the Guard.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 17 at 2016 6:58 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 17 Aug 2016 18:58:39 -0400

WAY BACK IN bASIC tRAINING YOU AND EVERY OTHER SOLDIERs WERE TRAINED TO SET ANY AR-10 or 15 TO HIS OWN Battle sight zero remember 17 and 34, you is your windage with 17 is center but your eye relief and your pull could move like mine is 3 left and set rang at 400 meters for a 308 and you can kill up to 800 meters real easy, find an officer that likes to shoot and then you will be on the range to relearn that Battle site zero and then write it down in your MOAB file where it should be

Response by SSG Jeffrey Leake made Aug 18 at 2016 5:18 PM

SSG Jeffrey Leake — Thu, 18 Aug 2016 17:18:55 -0400

I hope you are just joking. It's against Army Regs.