Are military trained veterans the reason for the recent spike in police utilizing lethal force?

2014-04-01T00:25:06-04:00

<p>With more and more veterans depart the service, more and more are turning to local law enforcement as a viable alternative career. More and more police are responding to simple disturbances in full tactical assault gear, as if they were dressed for a patrol down Rte Tomato in Baghdad.</p><p> </p><p><span class="a-size-large">Following the police killing the homeless man in New Mexico recently, and the current riots and backlash against that police department(there have been 23 civilians killed since 2010 by the one department) and other instances such as the officer in Georgia shooting the kid who answered the door with the xbox controller in their hand, do you feel that the Military trained tactics are necessary for every Officer? Do you think that the amount of veterans in the police force is playing a part in the spike? Do you feel that the police are becoming too militarized? <br><br>http://video.foxnews.com/v/ [login to see] 001/chaos-in-albuquerque-/#sp=show-clips</span></p><div class="pta-link-card"><div class="pta-link-card-picture"><img src="http://a57.foxnews.com/media2.foxnews.com/thumbnails/i/033114/0/0/033114_factor_chaos_640.jpg"></div><div class="pta-link-card-content"><div class="pta-link-card-title"><a href="http://video.foxnews.com/v/ [login to see] 001/chaos-in-albuquerque-/" target="_blank">Chaos in Albuquerque </a></div><div class="pta-link-card-description">Police clash with demonstrators protesting a recent wave of police-involved shootings</div></div><div style="clear: both;"></div><div class="pta-box-hide"><i class="icon-remove"></i></div></div>

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 1 at 2014 12:27 AM

2014-04-01T00:27:26-04:00

This.... is an interesting question actually.. I can see arguments being made for both sides. Good question..

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2014 12:29 AM

2014-04-01T00:29:03-04:00

I am not sure if it is the vet or not but needs to stop.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 1 at 2014 12:29 AM

2014-04-01T00:29:18-04:00

and a link to the book if anyone is interested.

Rise of the Warrior Cop: The Militarization of America's Police Forces: Radley Balko: [login to see] 112: Amazon.com: Books

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Response by Cpl Westin Sandberg made Jun 3 at 2014 12:52 AM

2014-06-03T00:52:17-04:00

I think the real issue is training police correctly, I honestly don't think this is a veteran issue, but an issue of sociopaths in the force, every Marine that I have met at least had been taught escalation and descelation of force, from what I have seen for the most parts in these incidents is police understand how to escalate a situation, but have no concept of how to perform the latter, and try to reach a peaceful solution...

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2014 1:03 AM

2014-06-03T01:03:38-04:00

I agree with CPL Sandberg, I don't think this is particularly a military veteran's issue. Are the people who are escalating force so quickly veterans, or are people making correlations where there isn't any data to support them?

From what I understand this is the correlation being made:

-Lots of Veteran's are getting out, a small percentage of them go into law enforcement
-Police killing civilians is rising
-Because some veteran's are getting out and joining the police force, this must mean that they are causing the killings.

I have another correlation I'd like to share then:

-When it gets hot outside, more people buy ice cream
-Also when it gets hot outside, more people commit violent crimes
-Ice Cream causes Violent Crimes

The data is being skewed into an unfair correlation that works to label Veteran's as murderer's just waiting for the next chance to pull the trigger. This kind of comparison makes it seem like we are unable to adjust to society, and I have to completely disagree with it.

Response by PO1 William "Chip" Nagel made Jun 3 at 2014 1:19 AM

2014-06-03T01:19:25-04:00

Wow! Good and interesting question. Does the Military and Police attract people that want to exercise excessive power over others, Sure! but I don't think they are the Majority (Thank God). I think most want to serve their country and community and all with the best intentions. Do police sometimes overreact knowing that who they may be up against is a Veteran with some to a lot of Combat Training, Hell Yes. Poor Police Officer has no Idea what he is up against and he may overcompensate. Do I have a problem with Police having what previously been considered Military equipment. No, not at all considering how well armed these Idiots they are called upon to control are. I am sad and sorry that they have to equal us.

Response by SCPO Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2014 1:30 AM

2014-06-03T01:30:44-04:00

I think that this is a good question. As I work in the Public Safety field I think that most of the time is not the case. Most of the Vets that I deal with, that are coming into the Public Safety field are well aware of escalation of force. I see most of the problem as hot shots with a power complex. To be clear I have previous experience in the street as a Law Enforcement Officer, and every hot head officer that I ever dealt with did not have any prior military experience. Mind you all this tactical gear is due to the influx of homeland security funds and grants. I think the prior military service law enforcement officers make a better well rounded officer.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 3 at 2014 7:04 AM

2014-06-03T07:04:22-04:00

An interesting question indeed and some interesting responses. I have been an MP for almost 20 years. I have a lot of friends that have gotten out and become civilian law enforcement agencies.

There is a lot that goes into it, unless you have been in that position as a law enforcement its easy to Monday Morning quarterback it. Law Enforcement Officer only have moments to evaluate a situation/perpetrator. And in those crucial seconds are the difference between life and death.

Just like with the military civilian police departments have "ROEs", after incidents there are review boards and investigations by the DAs that determine if criminal actions were taken. What we as the public see is this: "Police gun down homeless man in street of Anytown, USA....", what we don't see is the investigation into the incident that reveals homeless man was erratic, charging at Law Enforcement with knives in each hand and ultimately was a threat and the police used what was deemed by state and federal law as appropriate force.

Could training be better, you bet it could. How many times do we say that in the military? Training can always be better, selection in candidates for the job can always be better. Things can always be better.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2014 10:25 AM

2014-12-05T10:25:32-05:00

I see a lot more police officers riding solo, because of city budget cuts. I see a lot more people willing to confront the police, especially when it's just a single officer. I would say these two items are more likely to be the cause of increased lethal force.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 5 at 2014 10:26 AM

2014-12-05T10:26:39-05:00

Response by SGT Charles Vernier made Dec 14 at 2014 12:27 PM

2014-12-14T12:27:26-05:00

There are a lot of factors that go into this. I have worked as an MP and also as a civillian LEO. Most of this has nothing to do with veterans. For me to provide a thorough and complete analysis would require several pages though.

Response by Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay made Jun 14 at 2015 10:18 AM

2015-06-14T10:18:20-04:00

That is what i feel. An investigation and study should be done.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 24 at 2017 2:52 PM

2017-09-24T14:52:03-04:00

I'm just going off of my training. Flat out and un-equivalently say "NO". It pretty much takes an act of Congress for my to even touch my weapon. I am sure that most people have seen civilian police walk around with their hands on the weapons... Military Police actually have a stance that we are trained from which is why they originally did not like MP going into the civilian sector.