Are creeds useful? Do they actually serve any purpose?

2020-01-19T19:03:30-05:00

The soldier's creed infantryman creed, the airborne creed, the NCO creed, ranger creed, SF creed, and so on and so forth.

Other than being force memorized for boards, do they actually serve any purpose?

I'll be honest, I hate them and I hate memorizing stupid crap for no reason. I care much less about a soldier's ability to memorize the NCO creed than I do about how they actually are as a leader. I've actually found (in a very general useage here) that those who perfectly memorize things like this and can recite it without hesitation are usually those who don't live it, but love to quote it.

Not to mention the NCO creed is horrendously written in my opinion.

Edit: I see my question was added to: "Do they actually serve any purpose?" I did not write that.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Jan 19 at 2020 9:06 PM

2020-01-19T21:06:11-05:00

Elite organizations function on a very specific exacting ethos known as a narrative. The local Elks, Knights of Columbus, ecetera have a narrative, but are not known for their legend. You say Rangers or Special Forces or SEALs and automatically there is a specific narrative, especially critical to its members. It is essential to the expectations of the group absent any other information and is critical to their cohesion and continued success. Part of that can be creeds. I personally don't want to memorize mindless stuff, but the creed that is part and parcel with the narrative, and you are kind of stuck with it. It's not isolated to the Airborne Elite, among Armored Cavalrymen, it is Fiddlers Green. You say Fidler's Green to any other spur holding Cavalryman and it is instant understanding and shared experience.

Response by LtCol Robert Quinter made Jan 19 at 2020 9:16 PM

2020-01-19T21:16:20-05:00

There are many people who agree with you, but think of all the individuals who you have served with over the years. Everyone learns in different ways, and to some, the creeds may be their reminder or statement of what they should aspire to be. To others, they read it once and say I know that. Each of the forces are constantly searching for ways to get the word out so that everyone knows what the ideal is. Why did they publish the cleaning and immediate actions for the M-16 as a comic book featuring a GI Joe type and pin ups?
Don't count on DOD to write the next great novel!

Response by SGT Philip Roncari made Jan 19 at 2020 10:44 PM

2020-01-19T22:44:20-05:00

SSG (P) Marc W. -Well certainly not as well thought out and written as the previous comments,but only the musings of an old guy who used to be an NCO,who in fact didn’t have to memorize the Infantrymans or NCO creeds ,and as I read them long after I served and even made copies ,thought that long ago maybe I did try to uphold the principles stated in them,that was their purpose for me,be well Brother.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 19 at 2020 11:05 PM

2020-01-19T23:05:37-05:00

SFC Marc W. Memorizing a creed is not as important as buying into the concept. Marines are taught that taking care of your rifle is the number one task, and Marines understand this even if they do not remember the creed after Boot Camp. Marines care for their rifle, pistol, and other equipment before they care for themselves.

https://www.marineparents.com/marinecorps/mc-rifle.asp

My Rifle: The Creed of a US Marine

Every Marine is, first and foremost, a rifleman. In boot camp at Parris Island and San Diego, and at The Basic School at Quantico, Virginia, all Marines, enlisted and officer, receive instruction in proper rifle usage and maintenance.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Jan 19 at 2020 11:08 PM

2020-01-19T23:08:54-05:00

SFC Marc W., I’ve been in the Infantry and the Signal Corps. I was an NCO, airborne, psychological operations and Special Forces. They all have creeds. I served as a detailed inspector general. Holy smoke, we had to take a special oath!
In many respects, they’re admirable. I think that LtCol Robert Quinter and LTC Jason Mackay have given excellent responses, so I won’t reiterate their words.
Ironically, there is a creed that I think of periodically. If that means I try to live by it, all the better. It’s the creed of my alma mater, Auburn University. It was was written by George Petrie in 1943. Every student that enters Auburn at least knows about it. Lines from the creed appear on the scoreboard during football games. It could be nothing but meaningless drivel to many, but it resonates with me.

Response by SPC Stewart Smith made Jan 20 at 2020 12:32 AM

2020-01-20T00:32:02-05:00

In my civilian life I've adapted my own creed I recite every morning and it helps throughout my day.
- Today I will be positive
It sounds simple and stupid. And obviously we all know to be positive. But telling myself it every day really does help.
I feel the same goes for the soldiers and NCO creed. If you just memorize and recite them, then you are spouting nonsense. You should truly think about what you are saying. One line that got me in the soldiers creed was "I will ALWAYS place the mission first". I know that is not always going to be true. So yes, creeds can be meaningless. Creeds can be a good thing. The one important thing I feel you should do, is actually think about the creed, not just memorize.
Will you always place the mission first? Is there really no one more professional than you? Are you a leader of soldiers? Think about these lines. Ponder them often. Don't just memorize and recite them, otherwise they're meaningless words.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Jan 20 at 2020 12:56 AM

2020-01-20T00:56:09-05:00

If all you are doing is memorizing them, then you are stupid!. They are there for reasons- to inspire, to up up to, to emulate. To me, anyone not trying to live up to those creeds, are failing themselves, the units with the creeds and the Army in general. Maybe you should go home, so we can get better NCO's.

Response by SGT Robert Wager made Jan 20 at 2020 5:01 AM

2020-01-20T05:01:50-05:00

Are creeds useful? Short answer is yes. Are they useful to memorize for a board? Not really. If you are just memorizing the NCO creed to make words come out of your mouth for a bunch of 1SGs on a board then don’t bother showing up, you simply looking for a pay raise. It’s what you take away from the creed that is important.

No one is more professional than I. That is a powerful statement if you take it to heart.
The creed in my opinion is the difference between “Wearing stripes” and being an NCO and being a part of the backbone of the Army.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Jan 20 at 2020 6:39 AM

2020-01-20T06:39:29-05:00

If the creed captures meaningful and useful components that can be applied to the mission I think they are useful. They may not be perfectly remembered or applied but the creed captures the essence of what we are trying to do. I will use the Marine Rifleman's Creed as an example.

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
Without me, my rifle is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will ...
My rifle and I know that what counts in war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit ...
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will ...
Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!

___________________________________________________________________________________

That is a lot to remember but even if you cannot recite it word for word, the creed tells you about the importance of a Marine and his rifle. That taking care of it, learning it's attributes and how to use it and care for it as your life will depend on it etc. is mission critical. The most important part of the Marine Corp is the Marine and his rifle. That is ingrained early. The time we spend learning it, cleaning it, shooting it etc. is reinforcement of the importance of the creed in practice.

You can add things like the Mission of the Marine Rifle Squad to this:

To locate, close with, and destroy the enemy by means of fire and maneuver, and to repel the enemy assault by means of fire and close combat.

It is the essence of the mission of the squad in a single sentence.

We also learn the Marine Corps Hymn, all three versus, word for word. We sing it every night when we hit the rack in boot camp. It is more than a song, it is a lesson about the exploits, history and mission of the Marine Corps as well. It is much like a creed as well.

You are correct that rote memorization without the cultural reinforcement and discipline behind these creeds are just warm air over the vocal chords. They have to be learned and lived as a part of an organizations DNA.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2020 10:11 AM

2020-01-20T10:11:18-05:00

A creed recited by a piece of sh*t doesn’t change the fact that they’re a piece of sh*t.

I don’t have any of them 100% committed to memory, and I can’t say any of them have ever factored into any decision I’ve made. The NCO Creed, the Soldier’s Creed, hell even the Creed of the Spectrum Manager (yack) happen to align with values I brought into my service with me.

Is there a chance that having to learn a creed can change how someone thinks or acts in certain situations? Ehhhh...maybe. But human nature tells me that’s unlikely. You’re going to do what you do based on who you are and what examples have been set for you.

They sound pretty, they might put a scoop of hooah on your breakfast cereal, but the words mean only what you make them mean.

Response by Lt Col Jim Coe made Jan 20 at 2020 11:12 AM

2020-01-20T11:12:42-05:00

Creeds serve the purpose of stating institutional beliefs. If properly constructed and used, they help guide the institution. Do military creeds serve that purpose? I would say no. There are too many and they are too long. As SFC Marc W. said, they can be memorized, but it's more difficult to live them out. As an Air Force officer, I wasn't asked to memorize or recite any creeds. The only one I remember part of starts, "I am an American fighting man serving in the Armed Forces of my country." There's more to it, but it's lost in my memory banks somewhere. I think we tend to naturally memorize information we use often or need to know instantly without reference to screens or written documents.

I did consciously memorize, recite, and write down from memory critical emergency procedures for the aircraft I was flying. A common requirement for aircrew members. It was absolutely required if we were to pass our annual check flights. It was the big important stuff like the steps to take if an engine was on fire.

Response by SSG Dale London made Jan 20 at 2020 1:35 PM

2020-01-20T13:35:59-05:00

It all depends on what you believe.
The word "creed" comes from the Latin, "credo" which means, "I believe." It is also the root for "credible," and "credibility."
So, if you ascribe to the things the various creeds say, then yes. They serve a purpose. They help you to organize your thoughts and prepare you to defend your philisophical position.
But if the creed is just something you memorize to get points at the board, then they do more harm than good. By reciting a creed you do not agree with you make yourself a liar and you surrender your honor.
By reciting a creed you are nailing your colors to the mast, so to speak. You are making a statement about who and what you are. You are defiantly challenging any nay-sayers to prove you wrong and are offering to defend your position -- with violence if necessary.
I'll go one bit further -- if you do not ascribe to a creed that defines the group you are part of -- for example, the Infantryman Creed, the Airborne Creed, the NCO creed, etc., you have a bigger problem than memorization. You are effectively at odds with everyone in your group who DOES ascribe to it. You are not quite "the full shilling."

Response by SFC James Cameron made Jan 20 at 2020 4:19 PM

2020-01-20T16:19:49-05:00

This is an interesting question and I think that the answer is entirely subjective and goes down to a personal level.

As a child, I learned the Cub Scout Oath and the Law off the Pack; I moved on to the Scout Oath and Law as an adolescent.

All of these were genuinely just words until I actually put my heart into my efforts and became an Eagle Scout.

As a Marine I went on to learn the NCO Creed when I became a Corporal; and after I walked a gauntlet of my peers and blood stripes I my Gunny explained that I had just declared my job description in front of my new peers and subordinates. I would be held accountable.

Fast forward to the Army and I am learning new creeds, but I never forgot or laid down the responsibility I felt to the first creed I earned my right to declare.

So I feel it speaks volumes of an individual’s character if they take it upon themselves and actually walk the words of any creed they declare.

So much so that I would include a counseling as it was now their job description to newly promoted NCOs.

Response by SFC Casey O'Mally made Jan 20 at 2020 5:57 PM

2020-01-20T17:57:51-05:00

I have much the same problem with creeds as I do with organized religion. The people reciting them profess to live and think a certain way. There is no "try" in any of those creeds. As master Yoda said, "do or do not." Pretty much every single person reciting that creed will fail to achieve it at some point in time. Some more often than others. Every time a creed which is stated as an absolute is failed, it weakens the creed and all of those living under its aegis.
If you view them as aspirational rather than as concrete - i.e. this is what I will try to live up to, depite the fact that I am a fallible human - then there is value.

As a side note, almost every single time I reminded an NCO senior to me of the NCO creed, specifically a section they were failing to adhere to, I was reamed a new one. Only once was this not true - a SGM who I worked with stopped, thanked me for the azimuth check, and fixed himself. Every other time I saw my seniors failing to live the creed, it was somehow my fault that they were failing. When this is the case, the creed becomes meaningless and, yes, worthless.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Jan 21 at 2020 8:54 AM

2020-01-21T08:54:32-05:00

Sure they do! They work the same was a mantras, memorized bible verses, pledges, famous quotes, etc. The idea is to memorize it so that it is always in your mind! Whether they are personally useful to you or not is entirely about you, but that is how they work.