Are civilians at a VA hospital required to respect veteran patients? Who do they answer to?

CPT Cynthia Koroll, RN, MS, JD — Wed, 16 Sep 2020 22:38:57 -0400

Are civilians working at a VA hospital held to the same protocols and standards of respect that military members are? I have been told that once a civilian gets a DOD job there is nothing that can be done to them and no matter what they do, the VA cannot discipline them or discharge them from their jobs even when there is clear proof of disrespect of a veteran?
Do they answer to any military officials, or are they immune from discipline, maybe in a union?

I have been terribly disrespected. I feel hurt and sad and afraid to try to push the issue because of what they said and how they think of me. It has been awhile but everytime I have to call or go to the VA I feel like they think I am a bad person and they can treat me poorly.
In response to a FOIA request from VA Madison, I received Skype between 2 civilians working in Director John Rohrer’s office. Though redacted, the topic allowed me to discern who it was. My feelings are so hurt. I wrote to the Director and to VISN. VISN never replied. The Director wrote it in a log book to get back to me but he won’t. The calls they talk about were about a serious mental health issue that could not be resolved by an advocate. I think think that talking about a vet in PTSD treatment and saying; “I couldn’t live with myself” is awful.

Received in a FOIA document response, 2 civilians working in Director’s office;
“Don’t pick up this call, it is CK, she got our direct number”
“She is so nasty”.
“ I could not live with myself if I had to be that nasty all the time”
“I agree”

Received in a FOIA document request; civilian and RN
Civilian: CK left another one of her messages.
RN: She is fine, I talked to her today
Civilian: She wants a call.
RN: Yeah, they said that she was crying when she called. I laughed when I found out it was her!
Civilian: I know.

I want there to be something that can make them stop this. Every time I call now I feel like they will gossip
and demean me. If it is allowed by the Director’s staff, maybe it is ok with everyone else? I am an honorably discharged veteran

Cindi Koroll

Response by PO3 Julia Perry made Sep 16 at 2020 10:56 PM

PO3 Julia Perry — Wed, 16 Sep 2020 22:56:41 -0400

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Response by Nicole Thomas made Sep 16 at 2020 11:54 PM

Nicole Thomas — Wed, 16 Sep 2020 23:54:33 -0400

No you do not have to tolerate abusive behavior. For the Nurse to speak to the civilian was s Violation of Patient Confidentiality. Call HIPPA and file a formal complaint. If that doesnt work call me @ [login to see] . Ill file it for you

Response by SFC William Farrell made Sep 17 at 2020 1:02 AM

SFC William Farrell — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 01:02:35 -0400

CPT Cynthia Koroll, RN, MS, JD Hi Cindi, I am sorry you have been disrespected at the VA. No veteran should ever leave a VA facility feeling that way. I can say that 99.9% of my dealing with the VA has been respectful. I had one doctor who when I met her the first time, she said to me are you another alcoholic. I was shocked that she treated me that way and I reported her to the VA Hospital Administrator and requested a new primary care. I hope you reach out to PO3 Julia Perry as she seems to know what she is talking about.

Response by Maj John Bell made Sep 17 at 2020 1:42 AM

Maj John Bell — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 01:42:57 -0400

No one has free license to be a jackass employee in a private or public place of employment. No union contract allows someone to be openly disrespectful of customers, other employees, or management. The steps to terminating the employment may be more than expected, but they are there.

No one should be forced to work in a hostile work environment. Most employment attorneys will give you a free consultation. Find one and explain your situation. The attorney will let you know whether or not you have a case. And what to expect if you pursue that case. Should that attorney feel you have a case, the range of actions may be anything from a letter from your attorney to a lawsuit. I guarantee you that you will have managements attention with ANY of the courses the attorney offers.

Response by CPL Michael Moore made Sep 17 at 2020 1:44 AM

CPL Michael Moore — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 01:44:43 -0400

Everyone is due respect and to be treated with dignity. You can file a complaint with a patient Advocate , VA inspector general’s and the President’s hotline. It sounds like more than disrespect , it sounds like bullying. With Veterans suicide a major concern these to people should be fired. I would also recommend you get on the VA news email list as they often have online town halls with the bigwigs of the VA. I’m terribly sorry you were treated so badly. I’ve been very fortunate to have had great experiences with the VA.

Response by SSG Robert Perrotto made Sep 17 at 2020 2:51 AM

SSG Robert Perrotto — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 02:51:30 -0400

Sadly, this is not the first case of disrespect and violating patient confidentiality. I get some of us veterans can be challenging in interactions, especially if we feel like the provider is not performing to standard, or is disrespectful. That does not mean they can Gossip about you, or share your conditions with anyone not directly related to your health care. There ARE avenues available to you, two people already posted to assist you, another avenue is write your congressional representative, or senator. You could also contact the clinic or Hospital's Ombudsman. Another is to contact the various veteran advocacy groups and institutions - Most VFW's and Foreign Legions have advocacy services, or can provide a comprehensive list of services available with contact numbers. The important thing is - You are not alone, There are tools, and people available to assist you.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 17 at 2020 3:20 AM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 03:20:19 -0400

I'd forward a copy of the FOIA report to the media. They have been responsible for numerous dead-weight VA employees getting canned.

https://help.foxnews.com/hc/en-us/requests/new

Also, file a complaint with the VA OIG.

https://www.va.gov/oig/apps/info/hotlineGeneralContactForm.aspx?cc=s

Submit a request – Fox News

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Sep 17 at 2020 6:28 AM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 06:28:02 -0400

My sister in law worked at a VA hospital in mid Michigan until she retired, she said that they were held to the same flame as military type that worked there CPT Cynthia Koroll, RN, MS, JD

Response by Wayne Soares made Sep 17 at 2020 8:33 AM

Wayne Soares — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 08:33:11 -0400

Thanks for the share and for the wonderful work you do

Response by CW3 Kevin Storm made Sep 17 at 2020 2:59 PM

CW3 Kevin Storm — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 14:59:32 -0400

You want to see something happen, get a local news channel involved and see how quickly they suddenly have the urge to pick up the phone.

Response by SSG David Kaelin made Sep 17 at 2020 8:20 PM

SSG David Kaelin — Thu, 17 Sep 2020 20:20:55 -0400

I'm thinking that they are bound to respect all customers regardless of service status.

That said, I have heard that the VA has a few less than stellar players on the team. I know quite a few Vets who work for the VA. Everyone with whom I have dealt has been decent to awesome.

It's a shame that a few turds pollute the punch bowl.

I would say report that person to the VA complaint line and see what happens.

Response by SrA Lisa Hunt made Sep 18 at 2020 9:23 AM

SrA Lisa Hunt — Fri, 18 Sep 2020 09:23:56 -0400

I am so sorry you had this horrible experience! This is an unacceptable ethics violation by any standards, not just veteran vs. civilian. When I have had bad experiences in the VA (by many people) after no response from Patient Advocates, I call Congressman Gus Bilirakis' office. I received amazing service, respect, & immediate action! In one instance, my surgeon himself walked me through pre-op to get me in right away instead of 2 weeks away. There have been so many changes in VA thanks to him as the Chair of the VA subcommittee. I am one person and they have always cared like I matter. I highly suggest you take this route. You do not deserve this, and you must stand up for yourself & protect the integrity of others who are most likely receiving the same poor service. #StillServing

Response by LTJG Sandra Smith made Oct 19 at 2020 3:34 AM

LTJG Sandra Smith — Mon, 19 Oct 2020 03:34:23 -0400

If you ask me, both involved in that discussion are in the wrong jobs and should be fired. As both an RN and a veteran, I find that discussion objectionable. PTSD is not a joke, especially to the 1 suffering through it.

Response by PV2 Ross Bryan made Oct 25 at 2020 4:05 PM

PV2 Ross Bryan — Sun, 25 Oct 2020 16:05:39 -0400

WHEN I WAS IN HIGH SCHOOL 1956/60,
WE WERE OFTEN VISITED BY RECRUITERS,
AND THE ONE SALES PITCH THEY ALL HAD WAS -- "IF YOU DO YOUR TIME, AND GET AN HONORABLE DISCHARGE , YOU WILL GET THE WORLDS BEST HEALTH CARE"!!
ABOUT TO BE DRAFTED, DEC 1963 , I JOINED ARMY RESERVES! IN BASIC TRAINING WE HEARD THE SAME PROMISE FROM THE TRAINING CADRE!!
A GOOD FRIEND OF MINE JOINED OUT OF HIGH SCHOOL , SERVED 3 YEARS ACTIVE
IN GERMANY.
HE GOT OUT THEN HAD COLON CANCER
WITH MANY ISSUES, THEN RECEIVED A BOTCHED OPERATION!
THE SURGEON SAT ON THE PAPERWORK
AND REFUSED TO MEET WITH MY FRIEND!
HE WANTED TO COMPLAIN BUT FEARED REPRISAL AND DIDNT!
AFTER FINDING OUT ABOUT THE PROBLEM,
I WROTE A LETTER TO PRES CLINTON,
AND GAVE HIM THE STORY!!
THANK YOU BILL, HE GOT RESPECT, PROPER CARE, AND PAPERWORK HANDLED AFTER THAT!

Response by MSG Allan Davis made Oct 26 at 2020 8:28 PM

MSG Allan Davis — Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:28:55 -0400

Someone absolutely lied to you about most of that. After two years of absolutely no cause termination probation, VA employees are subject to review and even though employees who are not physicians are represented by the union they can be terminated with cause. The VA now has (for the first time) a list of offensive behavior that are grounds for immediate termination thanks to President Trump’s VA revamp. Gone are the days of incompetent lazy morons living off the government cheese without a worry of being fired. Simply contact your congressman for assistance if you continue to hear nothing back.

Response by LCpl Terry W Rollins made Oct 26 at 2020 8:44 PM

LCpl Terry W Rollins — Mon, 26 Oct 2020 20:44:04 -0400

Speak to the Patient Advocate; they are responsible for taking action on such complaints. Since President Trump came to office, these types WILL face disciplinary action.

Response by PO2 Ken Derickson made Nov 7 at 2020 6:35 PM

PO2 Ken Derickson — Sat, 07 Nov 2020 18:35:30 -0500

I understand your frustration. Sadly, the system is rigged against you, unless Trump can change the status quo/modus operandi of the civil service. I worked for the Army Corps of Engineers twice, just under three years each time (three years of consistence employment entitles you to career status-similar to tenure in academia), mainly because I got tired of the incompetence, disdain for the military leadership, and dragging out projects to get more money. It is indeed almost impossible to fire a career government employee under the current system. I have seen fraud, violation of ethics standards, and major mistakes made and at the most their was a slap on the wrist. Hopefully, if Trump beats the Democrats at their cheating game (do a duckduckgo search for Hammer and Scorecard-you won't find reliable info on Google) with this election, he can start culling the trash out of the government ranks and establish meaningful performance and accountability standards. I was a Hospital Corpsman at the Philadelphia Naval Hospital back in the early 1960's and a lot VAB personnel chose the Naval Hospital over the VA. You deserve respect!

Response by Pvt SanJuana Méndez made Dec 4 at 2020 8:41 PM

Pvt SanJuana Méndez — Fri, 04 Dec 2020 20:41:03 -0500

CPT Koroll, am glad to see I'm not only one who has experienced such disrespectful treatment at V.A., tho it saddens me to see this extends to officers as well. Glad, however, that u had such great response to ur plight.

When I started going to V.A. 21 yrs ago (took 28 yrs to learn my short lived service entitled me to healthcare), only one who showed "disrespect" wz NP (nurse practitioner assigned as PC), but I learned soon enuf that I could ask to be assigned to Women's Clinic. That changed my healthcare experience immensely 'til my PC became chief of Women's Health some 10 yrs ago.

Had handful of PCs before I wz assigned "permanent" PC--who became nu mom 2 yrs ago, putting me in situation I'd been in after first Women's Health PC became chief.

Fortunately, former PC turned chief had told me if anyone in any clinic denied me any attention I requested, I should invoke her name. Whenever invoking her name didn't work, I went to Consumer Affairs & complained. After going to Consumer Affairs a couple times, things took turn for the better. I wz seen by former PC (their chief), who made it clear to her entire staff that "her patient" would NOT be treated way they'd been treated. NOW, way things hv been since pandemic, former PC monitors Secure Messaging, & she brings my problems to their attention.

Case in point, developed problem late Oct., that I messaged present PC about, requesting advice as to what I should do. Chief replied & suggested I should go in for x-ray. I replied that I suspected pulled muscle or ruptured organ that might require MRI or ultrasound instead of x-ray but that I would go in in couple days, soonest I could arrange transportation to V.A.

Am breast cancer survivor, & wz scheduled for mammogram 16 Nov. Went in to be examined for possible x-ray 4 Nov. Saw former PC, nvr suspecting she wz tending to my situation EXCLUSIVELY. Before I knew, wz escorted to Imaging, where I not only got mammogram earlier than expected but also got ultrasound, neither of which found anything to worry about. When I expressed concern about pain I wz still experiencing, Tramadol wz prescribed without question.

Long & short of it, Captain, is that the squeaky wheel WILL get oiled! Go to Consumer Affairs & complain to them about disrespect u'r being shown. This too shall pass.