Are bullwhips cause for an EO complaint?

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 09:39:31 -0500

A fellow SM in my unit has a hobby of making whips of differing sizes using paracord, so at times we will pull them out and play with them. We were informed recently that we should no linger do so because of a complaint. The complaint being that whips were associated with slavery and we may get into more trouble if we continue. Obvious reactions aside, could this be brought up as an official EO violation and be escalated?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2020 11:24 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 11:24:30 -0500

Well since you have been made aware that there was a complaint and you should abstain from the action, it would be easiest to follow the instructions given. Third party resolution is a response to a given complaint. Whether you agree with it or not an EO rep was made aware and has taken steps to stop the offensive behavior, it doesn't matter if you find it offensive someone else did.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Feb 10 at 2020 12:56 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 12:56:31 -0500

" The complaint being that whips were associated with slavery and we may get into more trouble if we continue. Obvious reactions aside, could this be brought up as an official EO violation and be escalated?"

Your statement makes it seem an EO officer has NOT actually weighed in, that no complaint has been made to EO yet, just threatened so..Yes?

If so, go see your EO officer and make a complaint against the complainant for violating your EO rights. That person complaining to a non EO officer is "offensive behavior" to you.

Response by 1SG Dennis Hicks made Feb 10 at 2020 1:06 PM

1SG Dennis Hicks — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 13:06:37 -0500

This is why many can longer take these complaints seriously, just another motional appeal for attention by throwing the racism card out there. You could what if this on hundreds of inanimate items and waste even more time and effort. This is why context is so very important.

Response by SFC James Cameron made Feb 10 at 2020 1:34 PM

SFC James Cameron — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 13:34:00 -0500

In the world of EO, perception is everything. Do what your rank can afford.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Feb 10 at 2020 1:34 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 13:34:51 -0500

I would go straight to the EO in your unit and ask about this. If it is a valid complaint, it is how someone perceives something that wins every time. Why are you pulling whips during duty hours and playing with them? There has to be something better to do with your downtime.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2020 1:35 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 13:35:33 -0500

You need to speak with your EO Rep for guidance on this. Since it was brought up as a possible EO violation, then the EO Rep will be the SME on this answer.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Feb 10 at 2020 1:45 PM

SFC Kelly Fuerhoff — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 13:45:01 -0500

If someone made a complaint against you and asked you to stop - then just stop. Do you want to run the risk of an EO complaint? It doesn't seem worth the trouble.

No one here can predict what may or may not happen. Usually what is taught is handling these things at the lowest level. So if someone asked you to stop and you don't then it could be raised up to the EOL or EOA yes. Whether it is an informal or formal complaint depends on the person.

Response by SFC Melvin Brandenburg made Feb 10 at 2020 1:49 PM

SFC Melvin Brandenburg — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 13:49:27 -0500

I suppose if you were whipping each other. But, whips are a part of cowboy lore, so I guess you could be a cowboy. WTF. Too many thin skinned individuals out there. I can't even begin to think just because you made a whip it was meant to do anything other than screw around.

Response by MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P made Feb 10 at 2020 2:19 PM

MSgt Steven Holt, NRP, CCEMT-P — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 14:19:14 -0500

Were it me, I'd go see the local EEO officer to see what violations (if any) I had unwittingly committed and seek their advice on how to proceed.

Beyond that.... Pick your battles wisely. Just because you CAN do a thing does not necessarily mean you SHOULD do a thing.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2020 2:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 14:56:58 -0500

Sounds like someone is overly sensitive.

Response by SSG Carlos Madden made Feb 10 at 2020 3:47 PM

SSG Carlos Madden — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 15:47:54 -0500

This is hard to answer because perception is everything. Are you using the whips on each other for fun or even talk about using them on people? If you were a SM who had a history of saying racist things, posting racist things online and openly talked about how the USA was better with slavery, than yeah, I could see how someone may file a valid complaint. If you worked or owned a ranch or at rodeos as a hobby or prior to joining the military than the person is really taking your extracurricular activities out of context and you need to speak with the EO rep.

No one here knows you, the person who reported it, your history, their history or the context in which the event they saw occurred so can't be answered.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 10 at 2020 5:56 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 17:56:30 -0500

It can fall under 600-8 CH 6 and could potentially violate hazing and bullying. It’s perception

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Feb 10 at 2020 6:48 PM

SFC Kelly Fuerhoff — Mon, 10 Feb 2020 18:48:27 -0500

Here's the bottomline - literally anything can cause an EO complaint. Anything. Anyone can at any time go to their EO representative and file an EO complaint. Whether it results in substantiated or unsubstantiated is another story though. But anyone can file a complaint whether EO or SHARP at any moment and then it has to be investigated.

Response by MSgt Michael Smith made Feb 11 at 2020 8:44 AM

MSgt Michael Smith — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 08:44:27 -0500

Yeah. It can. It's not what you think in an EO complaint. It's what the complainant perceives. And since 'making a bullwhip' really has zero benefit to the mission, and is in fact just messing around and wasting time, then yes. It is a legit complaint.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 11 at 2020 6:55 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 11 Feb 2020 18:55:04 -0500

So ill add some more context to this. He makes them in his spare time and not his duty time, and we literally crack them (because the one is 18ft long) clear away from everyone else as to keep everyone safe and not startle people so much with the noise. Also, to my knowledge, this was never brought up to our EO rep, just to their own leadership. I understand that even if its bs, the fact that someone took offense to us attempting to crack an 18ft whip, we should stop. Thats not why I asked this question openly on here, I asked because how are we to act if someone can make such a complaint and take away our freedom to do those sorts of things. Is it fair? No. Is it probably just how its going to be? Sadly yes.