Are army bases being turned into Target-Rich environments?

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 18:04:11 -0400

Well, it seems that Fort Hood is being shot up again as we speak. Since bases are basically completely gun-free zones outside of MPs and training, do you feel they are being turned into high-profile target rich environments? Would armed NCOs or Officers contribute to public safety?

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2014 6:04 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 18:04:59 -0400

Also, wishing a swift and decisive end to whatevers happening on Fort Hood, and that all of the victims are SAFE and will go home to their families.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2014 6:17 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 18:17:48 -0400

Jeez, I hope that everyone is okay...

I do agree with you that knowing installations are gun-free zones is making them a high-profile target. I do think that arming leaders would solve this issue, but I really don't see that happening either. This is a good example of how everyone needs to be aware of their surroundings, both on and off post, and be prepared to react.

Response by SFC Michael Hasbun made Apr 2 at 2014 6:23 PM

SFC Michael Hasbun — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 18:23:17 -0400

This is one area where I think the IDF has a leg up on us. They emphasize weapons training and their personnel ALWAYS have their weapons and ammo. To include taking it home at night.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2014 8:35 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 20:35:27 -0400

Yes, I personally feel like anyone with intention of harm who knows that we have to stay unarmed on post could easily get deep within the post with mass casualties. The best example I can give is like going into store with one clerk and no security measures besides what he can see. I'm not saying everyone on posts should carry, that would be completely unnecessary and could cause loss of sensitive items if someone "forgets" their weapon somewhere. It would just be nice to have an extra security patrol prepared for incidents that could possibly blow past military police.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2014 8:38 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 20:38:41 -0400

The media seems to be rather misinformed about "Base Security," as well. Show up, drive on. No one gets searched here, you could drive a whole arsenal on post. As twisted as it is, I see this stuff on tv and it occurs to me... "I could do better..."

God forbid someone actually has the mindset and plans something out and has the firepower to back it up, think about how many lives would be lost. Security has long gone out the door in the name of convenience, god forbid we have to wait in traffic to get on post during the lunch rush - an errant glance at an ID or drivers license and waved on post. So why are we surprised this stuff happens?

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 2 at 2014 9:24 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 21:24:21 -0400

Khobar towers in Saudi Arabia comes to my mind. The Marines had weapons but their ammo was locked in a safe that they didn't have to combination to.

Seems to me that we (leaders) need to tighten our security on each base, enlist more MPs and get rid of the DA cops. They only stand around at the front gate anyways if you ever see them there. Outside of door kickers, MPs should be the highest number of personnel in the Army....

Just my $.02

Response by LTC Yinon Weiss made Apr 2 at 2014 9:37 PM

LTC Yinon Weiss — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 21:37:56 -0400

Many Americans have a firearm in their household for self defense. The fact that American service members do not have the right to defend themselves in the same way on a military base, is a real shame.

You don't have a lot of active shooters going into police stations. I don't think that is a coincidence.

At the very least you should be allowed to defend yourself in your own residence, even if that happens to be on a military base.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Apr 2 at 2014 9:58 PM

SSG Robert Burns — Wed, 02 Apr 2014 21:58:20 -0400

I think this puts it into perspective.  If a terrorists group was to storm the gates at any installation, we, the military would be dependent upon our civilian gate guards for our initial safety.  Then after we finally got approval to engage, we would all have to go to our arms rooms, after we found the armorer, draw our weapons and then wait for ammo.  In the meantime everyone else is getting shot up.<div>It is borderline retarded.</div>

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2014 2:45 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 02:45:18 -0400

First off I pray for the families of our fallen and the soldiers who commoited this offense.  I think we need to get a better grasp on our soldiers suffering from PTSD and see how the doctors can help them. Respectfully,MSG Haro

Response by MSG Sean Hendricks made Apr 3 at 2014 3:21 AM

MSG Sean Hendricks — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 03:21:31 -0400

Not sure about what is going on but, I have several friends and a small family element at Fort Hood.  What a tragedy, my prayers go out to those affected.  Thank God my Son and Daughter-in-law are doing okay.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2014 8:06 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 08:06:36 -0400

It's absolutely sickening that American military members can't even feel/be safe on American soil.  We also had a security breach at NOB, VA yesterday.  A middle eastern man in Navy blue digis tried to gain access to base by asking a female servicemember in uniform if he could get a ride on base to the USS ROOSEVELT (he pronounced it "BOOSEVELT").  Luckily the femail Sailor knew it was fishy and called security.  No word if the man was ever caught.  When I heard of the shooting yesterday, I initially thought it was the man I heard about earlier until I heard it happened at Ft. Hood.  I think this brings up the conversation that we should have the ability to be armed when on base, whether actually carrying a firearm or having weapons nearby (inside each command).

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 3 at 2014 10:56 AM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 10:56:59 -0400

OK, I had a very lengthy post ready and then realized upon rereading it that it could be "construed as being critical of the government." Let me just state (personal opinion and in no way a criticism of any level of my Chain of Command) that I believe I should have the right to defend myself at my place of work, especially in light of events over the past 20 years.

Let's take a look at SOME of the incidences:

- June 1994 - an airman at Fairchild AFB kills four, wounds 23 before being killed by a security officer

- March 1995 - a SGT at Ft. Bragg kills one and wounds 18 and is now serving a life sentence

- September 2008 - a Soldier at Ft. Hood kills his PLT LDR then commits suicide

- June 2009 - Abdul Muhammad opens fire in the military recruiting center in Little Rock, AK killing one and wounding another; he is serving a life sentence

- November 2009 - MAJ Nidal Hasan opens fire at the deployment processing center at Ft. Hood killing 13 and wounding 32; he has been sentenced to death

- Ocotober and November 2010 - a Marine Corps reservist commits a series of drive by shootings at multiple bases in northern Virginia causing no injuries but bomb making materials were found on him when he was arrested; he is serving 25 years

- June 2012 - SPC Elder shoots and kills his BN CDR during a safety briefing at Ft. Bragg then commits suicide the next day

- March 2013 - Sgt. Lopez opens fire and kills two fellow Marines at Quantico OCS before committing suicide

- September 2013 - Aaron Alexis opens fire in a secure building at the Navy Yard complex in DC, killing 12 and wounding four before being shot and killed by security officers

Their are many more attacks that could have been added to this list. I am not saying that allowing properly trained and licensed individuals to carry on military instillations would have stopped all of these attacks BUT as someone else pointed out in this thread, I don't see many people walking into police stations and opening fire.

Response by CPT Aaron Kletzing made Apr 3 at 2014 12:54 PM

CPT Aaron Kletzing — Thu, 03 Apr 2014 12:54:24 -0400

ATTENTION: Hi everyone, please participate in our first-ever RP survey, which is about this issue. The link is below. Everyone should vote. Thanks!

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/how-can-the-military-best-reduce-active-shooter-threats-like-fort-hood

RallyPoint | How can the military best reduce active shooter threats (like Fort Hood)?

Given the recent active shooter tragedy that happened at Fort Hood, how do you believe the military should best respond to help prevent future events from happening, and also casualties should they ha...