APFU Pants: Why do I have to take them off when it's between 35-50° F?

CW2 Jonathan Kantor — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 07:58:47 -0400

This has always been a pet peeve of mine.  We form up in full Winter APFUs because it's friggin cold outside, and the 1SG tells us to take our pants off. WHY? It's COLD!

Am I the only person in the military who gets cold when my legs are exposed to cold air and wind? We usually just stand there waiting for who knows what to start the formation usually after it was supposed to begin. I once had to take an APFT at Ft. Huachuca while it was 30° with a really cold wind. We had to take off our pants for that one. Too cold. Way too cold. Am I just bitching? Is this because I am a Floridian?

All I really want to know is why do senior NCOs make this call? Can't we take the pants off when we actually start PT?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2014 9:18 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 09:18:46 -0400

Well Chief there are two issues here. As for the PT test it is up to each individual Soldier what they wear while doing the PT test minus when doing push ups. Each SM will remove the jacket while conducting push ups so that the arms can be seen to ensure they are fully extending. The second I have came to the conclusion (coming from 13 years in combat arms) the 1SGs have been through a great deal of physical stress and their bodies are broken down. If they run with no pants on when it is cold, then the cold air directly on their old knees keeps them numb!! That is the only logical explanation that I have been able to come up with.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2014 10:07 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 10:07:02 -0400

I have watched first hand in Virginia CW2 Kantor; Soldiers falling and passing out in runs because they were overheated from wearing winter APFU's in 40 degree temps.  I think during PRT warm-ups absolutely wear the pants but when getting to run ditch'em.  They weigh down running pace and drag on windy cold days.  I am an avid mud runner and 5K above runner and never wear pants regardless of temperature the core will know what to do and push heat where needed.  I hate the long sleeve too. The collar is restrictive to bigger Soldiers and it doesn't wickaway as quickly as short sleeve does.  Your not complaining in this discussion you have a valid point but the person in charge accepts responsibility for any hazardous or harful outcomes when downgrading or upgrading APFU wear.  If it is cardio then ditch'em if it is Climbing or Military movement Drills 1&2 keep'em.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2014 10:10 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 10:10:09 -0400

Chief

I feel your pain when it comes to cold weather, I am from Puerto Rico, so anytime it goes under 70, I start shivering, and I hate when I am in shorts and t-shirt at that time.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 9 at 2014 10:11 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Apr 2014 10:11:51 -0400

Be careful Chief I got barked at for using the word "bitch session" in this site by a MSG.....just an FYI oversensitivity to Senior leaders who are to scard to call it like they see it. But your all Aces in my book Sir.

Response by Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 15 at 2015 9:23 AM

Lt Col Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Feb 2015 09:23:51 -0500

http://www.duffelblog.com/2014/12/soldiers-winter-gear-polartec/

I think of this every time I see one of these cold weather threads.

New Winter Gear Will Soon Be Issued To Soldiers, Banned

Soldiers are soon going to be able to have the new PolarTec cold weather gear in their issued gear, which will be banned for use.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 7 at 2016 12:41 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 07 Nov 2016 12:41:24 -0500

This is just a recommendation in the manual not a requirement.. so it was explained to me when I brought this up this morning.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 12 at 2016 11:53 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 11:53:47 -0500

First, I want to applaud you. I haven't seen a Warrant Officer PT in about 3 years. Second, I think the strategy is to try an acclimate you to the cold weather. If you wear full winters now. When it actually drops more you will end up wearing even more. Which can drastically effect how your body handles the cold in general. The Idea to help soldiers stay healthy. If they don't acclimate they will suffer down the line, especially when going out ot the field. Although some will suffer, it's actually better for the unit.

Response by SGT Chris Hill made Nov 12 at 2016 12:25 PM

SGT Chris Hill — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 12:25:49 -0500

Because the army doesn't believe in or allow common sense, such as allowing soldiers to wear whatever is authorized for their comfort - there's really no other logical explanation.

Response by SSG Ray Murphy made Nov 12 at 2016 12:30 PM

SSG Ray Murphy — Sat, 12 Nov 2016 12:30:30 -0500

It boils down to the leadership knowing, or being a part of, that group of individual soldiers who are too ignorant to know when to dress up or down for the current weather conditions, so they make the decision based on how they personally feel about it, all for that sometimes elusive beast called "uniformity". Has nothing to do with your comfort, or acclimation level at all.

Response by SSG Christopher Conklin made Nov 13 at 2016 4:42 PM

SSG Christopher Conklin — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 16:42:43 -0500

I took a APFT, in middle of March back in 2000, in Wisconsin for BNCOC, with shorts, shirt, socks and shoes and the temp was 10 above. I dont what the wind chill was but it was dam cold.

Response by SSG Christopher Conklin made Nov 13 at 2016 4:44 PM

SSG Christopher Conklin — Sun, 13 Nov 2016 16:44:17 -0500

I like the new APFT uniforms, can someone get me set

Response by SSG Grant Hansen made Nov 14 at 2016 12:39 PM

SSG Grant Hansen — Mon, 14 Nov 2016 12:39:39 -0500

When I went to basic at Ft. Knox back in February of 1986, we got issued cold weather gear with our uniforms. That included wool long johns. The mornings were brisk at 25°, but not unbearable. However, later in the day, the temperatures warmed to a balmy 50°. On our last day in the reception station we were told what the uniform for the day was and were told to not wear long johns. Some of the troops from warmer states like Florida didn't listen.

That day, we fell in with our bags and our new Drill Sgts took over. They had us pick up our bags and double timed us the mile to our new barracks. It was just a casual airborne shuffle, but by the time we got there, we were all sweating pretty good. The guys with the long johns however, looked like they were in danger of heat exhaustion. The lesson was hard, but learned well. From that day on, nobody dared wear anything other than the prescribed uniform for the day.

The point is that heavy exercise when wearing enough to be comfortable when resting is a good way to get overheated. You might be a bit cold when you start out, but before long, you'll be plenty warm.

P.S. - Yes, you can blame being a Floridian. You guys are wearing long pants and coats when we're still running around in sweatshirts and shorts in South Dakota. It's called acclimatization.

Response by SFC Clifton Bowyer made Mar 20 at 2017 10:53 AM

SFC Clifton Bowyer — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 10:53:17 -0400

Now that I am retired one of the things I like to do is step out onto my deck in the winter wearing shorts and T-shirt just so I can turn right around and go back in where it is warm.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2017 1:10 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 13:10:53 -0400

Except for that time we had frost bite cases after our brigade run @Ft Cambell

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2017 2:18 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 14:18:38 -0400

This is one of the biggest mysteries to me. In Germany the brigade runs uniform was no pants but to wear shorts, sweat top, hat and gloves. I never understood that logic. How can it be cold enough for hat and gloves but, not pants?
I'm from Upstate New York if you feel cold and want to wear pants it's ok. It appears uniformity and machoness can trump common sense in the military.

Response by SSgt Justin Fales made Mar 20 at 2017 3:12 PM

SSgt Justin Fales — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 15:12:18 -0400

Have you attempted to run the same running routes, not just a test in the full winter PT uniform? If not, try it. Then you may have a better grasp of the question. Our winter pants did odd stuff just walking around. They would fill with air, made you look like a crazy arm noodle guy!

Response by AB Blake Bowers made Mar 20 at 2017 5:38 PM

AB Blake Bowers — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 17:38:23 -0400

Man up

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2017 6:15 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 18:15:21 -0400

It's to motivate you to work hard at PT to warm yourself up.

Response by SGT Joseph Miller made Mar 20 at 2017 8:29 PM

SGT Joseph Miller — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 20:29:38 -0400

I dont know about this story it just sounds a little to much like one of them fisherman stories, a Chief Warrant Officer doing PT especially when it's that cold, that's like a butter bar that can read a map, it's a myth or fairy tale I can't believe it happened.

Response by SGT Jim Ramge, MBA made Mar 20 at 2017 8:31 PM

SGT Jim Ramge, MBA — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 20:31:55 -0400

Years ago when I went in '90, we had seasonal BDUs, summer and winter. When the Commander made the switch from summer to winter and vice verse, you wore what was dictated. Was all that was needed for some, given an order, you follow. Interesting that 30 degrees dry air in AZ wiped you out...

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2017 8:33 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 20:33:41 -0400

As a 1SG the only time I make them off in formation is if one Soldier isn't wearing them to keep what we use to call uniformity I make everyone take them off.

Response by MSgt Christopher Schoen made Mar 20 at 2017 8:52 PM

MSgt Christopher Schoen — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 20:52:18 -0400

Makes me appreciate retirement. For the old guys still in/close to retirement...hang a blank 214 at the finish line.

Response by CPL John Crouch made Mar 20 at 2017 9:48 PM

CPL John Crouch — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 21:48:25 -0400

We went from Schofield Barracks to Ft. Lewis at the end of September in 2001 for a train up with the first Strykers, for PT one morning temp around 28 we had a brigade run after stretching and then standing outside for about 45min the brigade commander finally decided to get out of his warm vehicle and told us to take off jackets and bottoms and I thought holy $hit! Hawaii to Lewis, average price temp Hawaii 62, somebody didn't know we were there, I couldn't feel my arms or legs after 5 minutes

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Mar 20 at 2017 9:48 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 21:48:33 -0400

Because he is the 1SG! Questions? Drop!

Response by PO1 Barbara Matthews made Mar 20 at 2017 10:04 PM

PO1 Barbara Matthews — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 22:04:06 -0400

I was Navy and we were smart enough to dress for the weather. While we had no official or uniform many commands dictated what we wore to PT. Most of the time it was appropriate for the climate.

Response by CW4 Angel C. made Mar 20 at 2017 10:10 PM

CW4 Angel C. — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 22:10:31 -0400

Well since you brought it up yes it sounds like you're bitching! I don't know your Army upbringing but if you weren't a high speed NCO maybe you can be a high speed WO and leader! Cmon brother really?

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 20 at 2017 10:49 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 22:49:30 -0400

This is pretty much my most hated thing during PT. For me when my legs are cold I'm done my whole body functions worse. But I can do the opposite, let me keep my pants and I can be fine w/o jacket or long sleeve.

Response by SGT Jon Creager made Mar 20 at 2017 11:11 PM

SGT Jon Creager — Mon, 20 Mar 2017 23:11:25 -0400

Crap ar Ft Riley sometimes we wore two pairs of sweats int he 35mph wind at 0F. and still froze. Yea thats right fall in we are running aournd the golf course at 0F and ince covered on the roads, never mind the broken legs and elbows take two motrin and drink water.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2017 2:05 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 02:05:39 -0400

Sir, it is my belief this actually happens to ensure Soldiers wear their complete uniform.

Response by SFC Wayne Theilen made Mar 21 at 2017 6:56 AM

SFC Wayne Theilen — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 06:56:27 -0400

You take them off. Because Top said take them off. Now assemble to right. Right face and run.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2017 7:14 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 07:14:16 -0400

I have always wondered this myself. I'm from WI, and yet I hate being cold. It's not exactly warm here for a good portion of the year, yet I've been forced to stand in many formations with exposed skin for no apparent reason whatsoever than "I said so." Our BN seems to enjoy this.

I still recall marching around during BNCOC in January, at Ft McCoy, in partrol caps, no gloves and no jackets, and doing outdoor runs in shorts, just because "that is how it has always been done."

Response by Cpl Eric Honomichl made Mar 21 at 2017 7:44 AM

Cpl Eric Honomichl — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 07:44:18 -0400

I'm a Marine and it baffles me when it's 10 degrees out and a -2 degree wind chill and they still make us Pt. Yeah know we need to get used to cold weather,but come on.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2017 7:44 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 07:44:35 -0400

This is what it says in black and white on what to wear for pt.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2017 8:36 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 08:36:44 -0400

There is no good reason for it. The closest thing to it is the claim that its team building. In truth it is just flexing power.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2017 9:10 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 09:10:09 -0400

I think the reason is because when we do or we sweat. When it is cold and we stop doing it or get to sweaty the amount of moisture built up on us can lead to hypothermia.

Response by A1C Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2017 11:50 AM

A1C Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 11:50:26 -0400

Exposure to the cold makes you burn more calories because your body expends more energy to keep your core temperature up. So they're doing you a favor by making you cold. They just don't want you to get fat.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2017 12:26 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 12:26:56 -0400

Ok so you are Chief and you let 1SG tell you that you have to take your pant off?

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Mar 21 at 2017 1:31 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 13:31:11 -0400

Uniformity. Uniformity. Uniformity. Because invariably someone will show up without pants... ;o)

That was a peeve of mine too, at least at the start of formation before we got warmed up. Taking them off for any running thought just makes sense unless you are in below freezing weather as you will warm up, and get you pants wet with sweat.... which will then not keep you warm.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2017 1:34 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 13:34:52 -0400

But did you die?

Response by CPL David Thompson made Mar 21 at 2017 3:03 PM

CPL David Thompson — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:03:55 -0400

Response by SPC Robert Stewart made Mar 21 at 2017 3:05 PM

SPC Robert Stewart — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:05:55 -0400

its funny how todays army you get to wear shorts,running shoes,cold weather gear.back in the day you did everything in your fatiuges and combat boots if it was cold you got to wear your field jacket. whats my army turning into?

Response by Cpl Kent Mitchell made Mar 21 at 2017 3:35 PM

Cpl Kent Mitchell — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 15:35:00 -0400

More reason to be a Marine. We wear trousers, not pants. Girls wear pants.

Response by SPC Joshua Davis made Mar 21 at 2017 5:49 PM

SPC Joshua Davis — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 17:49:07 -0400

The only time this became a issue for me was Ft . Eustis during AIT for an APFT the DS made us wear full winter PT gear pants included. When we got to the run I had to strip off my jacket and pants while running. Still ran a 12:00 2 mile after tripping while taking off my pants... drill was impressed lol

Response by SSG Chris Morrison made Mar 21 at 2017 6:22 PM

SSG Chris Morrison — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 18:22:57 -0400

I always thought the same thing until I had the option and ran in full PT's. Regretted it immediately. Pants are like sails hot and heavy. The real question is why can't you put your hood up on your gortex when it's raining

Response by MSG Clark Shumway made Mar 21 at 2017 7:01 PM

MSG Clark Shumway — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:01:06 -0400

Nobody ever said that the ARMY was smart.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2017 7:04 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 19:04:00 -0400

I didn't fully understand that concept until I went to ranger school during the winter months. The reason for taking off the tops and bottoms in the cold was for the purpose of the body sweating, if you kept the gear on then your body would continue to be cold afterwards instead of after doing PT and putting the gear back on, it would warm your body.

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2017 8:19 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 20:19:53 -0400

Because they are fucking stupid.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 21 at 2017 8:31 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 20:31:25 -0400

CW2? You mean, you were actually in formation?

Response by SSG James Dennis made Mar 21 at 2017 10:28 PM

SSG James Dennis — Tue, 21 Mar 2017 22:28:04 -0400

At least now we have decent PT Sweats. Anyone remember the banana suits from the 80's?

Response by SFC Scott Parkhurst made Mar 22 at 2017 12:27 AM

SFC Scott Parkhurst — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 00:27:53 -0400

As a MFT this shocks me. This can do damage to your muscles if your exposed to to much cold for long periods of time. And don't forget that each person is different. Some can handle it for longer time periods then other's. If you and or I don't care for it then we shouldn't have to be in shorts. Now for testing purposes, the APFT shirt is required because we need to see that your chest is nearing the mat and your elbows are bending. Also I lik to see that your doing a correct sit-up. Some folks even get over heated when wearing the full sweatsuit. Some "higher NCO's" want uniformity in formation so they want everyone to either wear pants or no pants/jackets. Wrong answer. I allowed what ever you wanted cause I didn't want any injuries!

Response by PFC Leander Yazzie made Mar 22 at 2017 1:46 AM

PFC Leander Yazzie — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 01:46:26 -0400

1Sgt but check who's with me hooah!!

Everyone else..........

Chica boww wooow!!

Seriously acclimate or die!

Response by SPC Rick LaBonte made Mar 22 at 2017 5:25 AM

SPC Rick LaBonte — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 05:25:16 -0400

Born and raised in Michigan here. When I did commercial logging law required me to wear ballistic nylon either in the form of chaps or pants. The pants came in either a "summer weight" or "winter weight", no one ever bought the winter weight because you'll sweat in the summer weight at 5 degrees in the winter. Guys like me just used canvas pants and chaps. PT is a little more strenuous and a 30 degree day in Arizona sounds nice-try Ft Riley KS at 20 plus a wind chill index!

Response by CSM Andrew Perrault made Mar 22 at 2017 6:22 AM

CSM Andrew Perrault — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 06:22:57 -0400

My view is that there should be some common sense applied here.......Training to be miserable is just plain stupid. With Army training there will be many opportunities to be miserable especially if your combat arms.

Response by SMSgt Roger Horton made Mar 22 at 2017 6:36 AM

SMSgt Roger Horton — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 06:36:43 -0400

When I was in The Marines we didn't have this problem. We fell out in the uniform PT uniform that was announced. We didn't have PT pants. A lot of things in the military don't make sense to the bottom of the totum pole.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2017 7:32 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 07:32:39 -0400

1 reason that I can think of is Top forgot his pants at one point in time and now all the Tops want to be that hardcore.

Response by SGT Nathan Vitartas made Mar 22 at 2017 9:08 AM

SGT Nathan Vitartas — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 09:08:42 -0400

A chief doing PT? Um chief you are a warrant officer put you pants back if you're cold I doubt anyone will say anything.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2017 1:59 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 13:59:39 -0400

Yeah I'm stationed in Fort Wainwright, pretty sure it was taught that you don't actually ever "acclimate" to the cold in extreme temperatures. Usually when you downgrade, it's because a dummy forgot something.

Response by PO2 Zeek Tomczyk made Mar 22 at 2017 2:36 PM

PO2 Zeek Tomczyk — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 14:36:51 -0400

The pants may have caused overheating which would in turn cause sweating and chills/hypothermia to set in.
We were lucky enough to have indoor hangar decks to run pt in during boot in February at Great Lakes Naval Recruit Training Center,but marching in 15 degree snow storms in just dungarees ,no long johns sucked. We had to don towels around our heads like a shemahg.
Thank God I got duty in the Phillipines.
UDT shorts ,tank tops and sandals.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2017 7:28 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 19:28:02 -0400

Hahaha! A Warrant doing pt is like seeing a unicorn! The pt uniform sucks as it is, ditch the pantaloons and just pt! Like running with a trash bag around your legs. And it's not like it really keeps you warm like the old sweats!

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 22 at 2017 8:04 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 22 Mar 2017 20:04:53 -0400

I honestly think it's both to acclimate and because of the numbing effect. I have a knee injury and can't run too often because it helps pain brings me to tears. However when it's cold I can run without it hurting due to the numbing effect, granted I'll have to wear my knee brace all day if I do. Being from Houston where it reaches temperatures over 100 and then tack on humidity going to JBLM where it's almost always raining or freezing cold I can say I actually prefer to not wear the pants when it's above 32° now.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2017 1:04 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 01:04:31 -0400

Try doing PT at -24

Response by SPC Ryan Boller made Mar 23 at 2017 9:54 AM

SPC Ryan Boller — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 09:54:47 -0400

It's potentially dangerous to do heavy PT with full gear on. When conducting PT in full gear at frigid temperatures, the body still sweats, and it's that sweat that can and will lower the body temperature. Moisture on the body in cold will remove heat from your body 25x faster. However, as a leader you have to know when to downgrade and when to take it inside. I agree that standing in formation for a long period of time in a downgraded uniform is just as bad as conducting strenuous exercise in full gear.

Response by 1SG David Arbelle made Mar 23 at 2017 10:03 AM

1SG David Arbelle — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 10:03:14 -0400

Chief, it's just plain stupid. I can almost buy the "we all need to look the same in formation". All I can really say is, retire like I did, get a civilian job and do "your thing".

Dave Arbelle 1SG (Retired)

Response by 1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2017 10:24 AM

1SG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 10:24:23 -0400

I belive a Soldier should be able to put/take on/off there PT clothes, during the exercise. I want them to get everything out of the PT training. Not worry about the weather. So, if a soldier need to remove his or her PT pants and or put them on. If this gets them to work-out harder. Then we all win.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2017 11:25 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:25:11 -0400

35-50° isn't cold at all maybe, who knows.

Response by SPC Darryl Austin made Mar 23 at 2017 11:34 AM

SPC Darryl Austin — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 11:34:10 -0400

As lower enlisted, I always appreciated being treated like a grown up. The units that allowed the lower enlisted the power of choice such as what to wear during PT, seemed to have way better morale. Leadership is way more than always telling soldiers exactly what to do and exactly how to do it. Having said this, it is my observation that the micromanaging leaders were always the weakest. They show their subordinates that they don't trust them at all to make any decision even if their decision is within regulation. The duty lies on the individual Soldier to make sure that they are physically fit and giving it their all for pt. If their clothing is within reg, leave them alone. If a junior NCO has a soldier that he knows is retarded, then he can tell his Soldier "hey look you need to make sure that you wear a t-shirt and shorts because you're going to heat up at the halfway point" excetera. For the vast majority of soldiers that are lower enlisted, we are grown men that have already been through basic and many of us through more than one deployment. You will build the soldiers confidence if you can allow the soldier to make small choices.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2017 12:27 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 12:27:10 -0400

If the unit is in control of itself, and the CPT and 1SG can make the call, then uniform should be based on the temperature and wind-chill for that specific date. Some units will come in, in full winter PT's, and simply downgrade if the exercise for that day is aerobics, running, etc. You should almost always remove the pants on a run day (after the warm-up) when it is 39 degrees or above.

Then again, some Company Command teams do not get the choice and go by the guidance of their Battalion.

The only thing that bothered me was when some (not all) of the units I've been in, went by Brigade or Post guidance and on specific dates.
For Example: The whole Brigade will switch to Winter PT's on 15-NOV-2017.

I don't quite agree on that, especially if the whole brigade is NOT participating in Daily PT like the Companies are. I know this is a way to ensure and keep uniformity within a Brigade, but I think it is too extreme to try to keep uniformity at that level of echelon.

Back in my command days, I was fortunate enough to be given the choice for my Company. Myself and 1SG would always get up around 0400 and check the weather and make the call based on the weather report for that day (weather can vary extremely within 24 hours, so its best to check it several hours out). We would then send out a mass text 1 1/2 hours prior to formation for the PT Uniform.

I don't mind being cold, as long as there was some thought to it, rather than basing it on a date.

Response by SFC Christopher Morris made Mar 23 at 2017 5:31 PM

SFC Christopher Morris — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 17:31:21 -0400

There is one simple answer to this question - "Because I am the 1SG, this is my formation, and I said so" The End

Response by 1SG Robert Wempe made Mar 23 at 2017 6:42 PM

1SG Robert Wempe — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 18:42:18 -0400

If you have been stationed at Fort Drum and then went somewhere else, you will surely know the answer. If you wear the pants and jacket when it is not below 40, you are going to be hurting when the temps do drop. Also, Soldiers will wear all the cold weather gear, and what is the first thing they want to do when PT is over, take it off because they are too hot, which leads to pneumonia and we all know how excellent health care is, everything is Sinusitis.

Response by SSG George Mathewson made Mar 23 at 2017 7:55 PM

SSG George Mathewson — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 19:55:34 -0400

APFUs. What the .... We wore our fatigues and combat boots and ran in the cold.... Germany cold cold. Then in Korea get real. Get tough. No complaining set the example. Go Army

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 23 at 2017 10:10 PM

CDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 23 Mar 2017 22:10:26 -0400

Gee, how about letting people wear pants, jackets, and hats/gloves according to their comfort in the conditions at hand? Like, oh, maybe, ADULTS? At my age, I have a much different tolerance for cold than a 20ish youngster with an adolescent's metabolic rate. And do the sergeants have nothing better to do than tell people to take their pants off at PT? Really?

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 24 at 2017 2:29 AM

COL Charles Williams — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 02:29:23 -0400

Because

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2017 6:25 AM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 06:25:39 -0400

The new APFT uniform is crap...period. Being stationed at Drum and shortly into Wainwright, this uniform is wholly impractical and beyond anything that resembles protection from the elements. Again, we have begun to concentrate on how we look rather than how we train. I'm sure it's great for those lifers that stay at Bragg or Hood for their whole career. However, for those of us chosen to lead in different units throughout the Army, it is horrible.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2017 8:52 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 08:52:10 -0400

CW2 Jonathan Kantor while these pants are a bit more comfy they do not even remotely work in any situation to keep my legs warm. I would rather just go in shorts at that point.

Response by SPC Chance Chappell made Mar 24 at 2017 2:13 PM

SPC Chance Chappell — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 14:13:43 -0400

In those temperatures we wore our beanie, gloves, unit sweatshirt, reflective pt belt, and shorts. We brought pants, but they stayed in our cars, or in the barracks rooms. We huddled up like penguins for heat, then jumped into formation, shivering quietly to ourselves before getting released to do pt. We loved that part, as it meant you were going to do something to get warm. Thus, we didn't have the shedding of the pants dilemma.

Response by SGT Felicia King made Mar 24 at 2017 5:08 PM

SGT Felicia King — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 17:08:42 -0400

As if the warrrant officer is in the formation anyways. He's likely at the gym ... maybe Lol

Response by SFC Christopher Taggart made Mar 24 at 2017 6:50 PM

SFC Christopher Taggart — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 18:50:34 -0400

I was stationed at Ft Campbell then Ft Hood and we wore short sleeve t-shirts, shorts, reflective belt, with gloves and skull cap in the middle of January and February all the time. They told us it was to acclimate us to the changing weather...I thought otherwise, but I kept my mouth shut!

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 24 at 2017 8:50 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 24 Mar 2017 20:50:08 -0400

It's just plain stupidity and not caring about their Soldiers

Response by SFC Patrick Chapman made Mar 25 at 2017 1:02 AM

SFC Patrick Chapman — Sat, 25 Mar 2017 01:02:05 -0400

Just do as your told

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2017 4:53 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 26 Mar 2017 16:53:25 -0400

Please see FM 7-22 for APFU guidance

Response by MSG Jimmie Mark made Mar 27 at 2017 7:41 PM

MSG Jimmie Mark — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 19:41:30 -0400

Well being a 1SG and stationed at Fort Wainwright AK as a company we would do PT in the bays at the motorpool and when it was time to go on our many company run we would put on our hear and go running. When it comes to PT Test of course you would take off your jacket.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2017 7:45 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 19:45:31 -0400

I think the real question is as far as the new pt uniform goes what is a thin sheet of plastic covering your legs actually doing

Response by 2LT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2017 8:09 PM

2LT Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 20:09:53 -0400

Well request through the Commander to develop an SOP with specific temperatures to coincide with a specific uniform... and I agree with you, except usually on the other end. It's 60 degrees outside and I'm wearing a short sleeve, long sleeve, and jacket

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 27 at 2017 8:21 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Mar 2017 20:21:17 -0400

Why does this say 3 yrs ago? Is this still happening?

Response by SPC Bryan Isaiah made Mar 28 at 2017 2:19 AM

SPC Bryan Isaiah — Tue, 28 Mar 2017 02:19:24 -0400

Chief, at least your not at Ft. McCoy. Where it doesn't matter what you wear, it's goons be cold

Response by SFC William Ziegler made Apr 27 at 2017 10:32 AM

SFC William Ziegler — Thu, 27 Apr 2017 10:32:51 -0400

You're a warrant officer; what are you even doing standing in a formation? Why don't you Casper like the rest of the CWs'

Response by SFC Douglas B. Hull made May 9 at 2017 10:56 AM

SFC Douglas B. Hull — Tue, 09 May 2017 10:56:43 -0400

when I was in the change date for PT uniforms was set by DOA, many where the days running in shorts and tennis shoes in blizzard conditions with a foot of snow. Now then as now some folks thought it prepared you to survive winter better. Well all it did for me was increase my VA Percentage for cold weather injuries which do not go away. it may be traditional command decision. I.e. it has been done this way all the time. Commands like to compete with each other, at Ft. Hood 2nd AD and 1st Cav where competing to see who could stay out in the field the longest. I got a certificate for being in the field for 287 days one year. So what I am saying it may be command completion.

Response by SPC Brent Melton made May 14 at 2017 8:49 AM

SPC Brent Melton — Sun, 14 May 2017 08:49:04 -0400

The reason is that its warm at those temperatures. When you're stationed in Alaska and its -20 to -30 for a month and suddenly you hit +5, its a heat wave. Its not uncommon to see people around Fairbanks wearing shorts and t-shirts. Does it suck while you're standing around? Sure. Once you start moving though you'll be fine.

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made May 18 at 2017 10:29 AM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 18 May 2017 10:29:43 -0400

Hahaha!

Response by MSgt William Patrick made May 19 at 2017 11:22 AM

MSgt William Patrick — Fri, 19 May 2017 11:22:44 -0400

I know you guys are going to laugh at the Air Force guy making comments about PT, but I worked with Joint SOF for many years so I have some credibility here. When I first started training with Operators in a Joint environment I said, "It's pouring rain! We're not seriously going to run in that, are we!?" Then I said, "It's 10 degrees out there and there's two feet of snow! We can't possibly do a 5K and 100 pushups!" Needless to say I got up close and personal with things like cold, heat, rain, snow, mud, and dirt on a level that I never conceived of in my younger days. Words like NOT, CAN'T, WON'T, and IMPOSSIBLE started to fade away and somehow I found myself looking forward to the rain and hoping for a freezing morning because it felt AWESOME. Mind you, it felt even more awesome when it was over, but that's like double-awesome. For me, military service was about doing things I never thought I was capable of, and little things like being cold are the baby steps that get you there. We are the greatest military on Earth for a reason. You guys are awesome, KEEP BEING AWESOME!

Also, Google Wim Hof...

Response by GySgt James Marchinke made Jun 7 at 2017 8:36 AM

GySgt James Marchinke — Wed, 07 Jun 2017 08:36:17 -0400

Uniformity and always follow the orders from the ones assigned above our pay grade; could always run in place or exercise while you await formation PT. This question would not have been ask while I served, the military has become so soft.

Response by CDR Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 9 at 2017 10:29 AM

CDR Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 09 Jun 2017 10:29:46 -0400

This wholething seems downright silly. It's PT, not a parade. So, who cares about absolute uniformity? Wear whatever components of the PT uniform you need to perform well, let others do the same, and worry about something important.

Response by CPT Earl George made Jun 17 at 2017 10:34 PM

CPT Earl George — Sat, 17 Jun 2017 22:34:40 -0400

At the IOAC at Ft Benning in 1975, we had two Marine officers in the class. They did PT by themselves, because the Marine Corps had different PT standards.

Response by 1SG Patrick Sims made Jul 17 at 2017 7:56 PM

1SG Patrick Sims — Mon, 17 Jul 2017 19:56:18 -0400

Because your 1st Sergeant is a chicken shit pussy who won't stand up to the CO and look after his troops------Like his job requires-----The curse of career minded soldiers.

Response by SGT Randall Smith made Jul 18 at 2017 6:40 PM

SGT Randall Smith — Tue, 18 Jul 2017 18:40:22 -0400

Question. If you dress like the picture in the morning for PT do you have time for a shower and to change into your duty uniform. When we had a.m. PT and were through we brushed off our hands and marched to our duty stations.

Response by SFC James Beasley made Jul 21 at 2017 1:38 PM

SFC James Beasley — Fri, 21 Jul 2017 13:38:45 -0400

It basically boils down to who's in charge. If the commander feels better about running with just shorts then that's what will happen. Sadly however those types of commanders are making decisions based on what' s more comfortable for them and neglecting the overall common sense factor. We had a Brigade commander in Germany that decided to go out with a bang before he retired. The weather was a blistering 16 below zero with five inches of snow on the ground. The brigade ran a four mile run all over post. Soldiers were falling left and right from sprained ankles and twisted knees. The next day about one third of the brigade was on sick call. He definitely left with a bang

Response by PVT Mark Zehner made Aug 6 at 2017 3:30 PM

PVT Mark Zehner — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 15:30:41 -0400

Military doesn't go by temperature most times they go by times of the year I remember getting 105 degrees sometimes then at night dropping down to 70 it we had to keep the windows open because regulations said to even though we were freezing!

Response by 1SG Charles Simpson made Aug 7 at 2017 1:56 AM

1SG Charles Simpson — Mon, 07 Aug 2017 01:56:07 -0400

Mr. Kantor, When I was doing my duty to my country as an Army Grunt (1960 through 1988), we didn't question such trivial things as the discomfort we suffered due to having to wear, or not wear pants as instructed by either the officer or noncommissioned officer in charge of the formation. The uniform of the day was posted on the bulletin board standing right outside the mess hall door (we didn't have dining facilities in those days) and if you didn't read it, the First Sergeant would be nibbling on your butt for days to come for that unforgiveable transgression. Every soldier (we didn't have service members in those days either) in the division from the Division Commander on down to the lowest ranking Private Snuffy were all in the same uniform for all tasks. That was known as the Army Before Snowflakes. Physical training and testing is necessary so the commander can have a good handle on the combat readiness of the unit and individual comfort is not a matter of grave concern to a good commander. If you have never taken a PT test wearing bull battle then, in my opinion, you have never become a true soldier and I would never feel comfortable to be in battle with you. Allowing soldiers to dictate terms and question requirements is the most dangerous thing that can happen to any unit in our army.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 9 at 2017 4:09 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Aug 2017 16:09:59 -0400

I'm calling bullshit.
No Chief Warrant Officer ever went to PT formation.
If you do, you must be an NCO impersonating a CW2.

Response by CW4 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 13 at 2017 7:01 AM

CW4 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 13 Aug 2017 07:01:01 -0400

Chief, why are you still going to Company-level PT outside of TRADOC?

Response by GySgt Frank Gagliano made Aug 31 at 2017 4:41 PM

GySgt Frank Gagliano — Thu, 31 Aug 2017 16:41:21 -0400

Happy to me once it the Marines. The CO (LtCol) forgot his sweat pants.So you know what happen? Left them in the ground in formation and commence the Battalion run.

Response by CPT Don Biscuit Retired made Sep 2 at 2017 7:22 AM

CPT Don Biscuit Retired — Sat, 02 Sep 2017 07:22:20 -0400

Know what really chapped my hide? Back when I was a young PVT, the Army issued us pile caps. IMHO, that was the absolute best piece of equipment ever made! They thing was, they would never allow us to wear them!!

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 27 at 2017 10:28 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 27 Sep 2017 10:28:54 -0400

Well chief, for my experience in FT. Wainwright AK I can tell you that the army only identifies cold as at condition from 32 and below everything above it could result on heat casualty, everyobe is different? Yes, but 32 iz the safe point; also like someone already said before we most train our bodies to get use to extreme weather for example if you put the cold weather gear on above 32 that same gear will not help you whenever it gets below 20 degrees

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 3 at 2017 2:04 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 03 Oct 2017 14:04:30 -0400

Three years of this conversation.

Response by SGT Vic Steroid made Oct 11 at 2017 11:34 AM

SGT Vic Steroid — Wed, 11 Oct 2017 11:34:00 -0400

When I complained that I was cold during PT, I'd get a retort that "You're from Chicago. You should be used to the cold." I'd come back with "Yeah, but in Chicago, we're smart enough to go inside when it's this cold." Sure, it was funny at the time, but late in my career, I researched the US Army deployment to Russia in 1919 (that's right- the Army deployed to Russia in 1919- look it up). The Army sent a Michigan Militia unit, thinking that since they were from Michigan, they'd be used to the cold of Siberia. Plus, they kept the overcoats in the hold of the ship while they moved from England to Arkhangelsk off of the White Sea. After all, it was September and great weather - in England. Those actions were devastating to the soldiers. Most of those in the Militia were shopkeepers or factory workers. They were expected to know instinctively about skis and snowshoes, and how to stay warm in a cold climate. During that deployment, poor leadership and half-baked assumptions led to an American retreat and 279 KIA.

IMHO - if you want to wear pants during PT, you should be allowed to wear pants.

Response by SPC Jimmy Bussey made Oct 22 at 2017 1:09 AM

SPC Jimmy Bussey — Sun, 22 Oct 2017 01:09:55 -0400

Acclimation to hardship. The Romans started bathing male babies in ice water shortly after birth in order to inure them to hardship.

Response by SPC Steven Oxley made Nov 16 at 2017 6:06 AM

SPC Steven Oxley — Thu, 16 Nov 2017 06:06:26 -0500

Because you don't always have time to put your pants on when going to war.

Response by SFC Wayne Theilen made Nov 29 at 2017 7:14 AM

SFC Wayne Theilen — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 07:14:50 -0500

You take them off because Top said so. When the CO says something you look at Top for confirmation. And never piss off the 1SG. Did that ONCE

Response by SGT Christopher Lachcik made Nov 29 at 2017 3:18 PM

SGT Christopher Lachcik — Wed, 29 Nov 2017 15:18:12 -0500

Wait...a CW2 is in formation....doing pt?????

Response by SPC David Willis made Dec 1 at 2017 9:41 AM

SPC David Willis — Fri, 01 Dec 2017 09:41:03 -0500

Forgive my ignorance but I didn't realize people could make Chiefs do anything they didn't want to :P

Response by PV2 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 19 at 2017 8:14 AM

PV2 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 Dec 2017 08:14:12 -0500

First problem is you were at Huachuca

Response by SPC Daphne Eisiminger made Jan 4 at 2018 6:19 AM

SPC Daphne Eisiminger — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 06:19:02 -0500

I went to basic in Missouri in the winter and I did not mind running in shorts and a t-shirt - it gave me a reason to keep running - 1 it the more I ran - the warmer I was and 2 the faster I ran the faster I got back inside where it was warm. All this helped me get better on my run which was my worst area on the APFT.

Response by LCpl Wayne Sisco made Jan 4 at 2018 11:50 AM

LCpl Wayne Sisco — Thu, 04 Jan 2018 11:50:28 -0500

Just another element that helped affect readiness. Being acclimated to such stressors only advances ones ability to tuff it out on down the road. Instead of having to pack on the clothes which would cause you to over heat if your really giving it all you got. Only goes to help ease the stress if your already acclimated to it.

Response by SFC Joe Ruyle made Jan 8 at 2018 7:54 PM

SFC Joe Ruyle — Mon, 08 Jan 2018 19:54:31 -0500

There is a physiological reason that the Navy takes advantage of when they had us sit in the 56-degree surf at Coronado. Exposure to cold like that causes your body to transform yellow or white fat into something different called brown fat. So what? Well yellow or white fat is just a large cell filled with lipids. It can be converted into energy but doing so is one of your bodies last resorts. Brown fat contains some lipids but also has mitochondria Which are the little engines in our bodies that actually create energy..... they burn the other fat! Once you have made enough brown fat your body stays warmer and you get to lose weight because of the energy being used by, not only your muscles but also brown fat. Yes, it's an uncomfortable process...... so is not being in the proper condition to withstand day after day of prolonged combat.

Response by MSG John Duchesneau made Mar 4 at 2018 11:11 PM

MSG John Duchesneau — Sun, 04 Mar 2018 23:11:19 -0500

Your point is well taken. Unfortunately, the Army is a conformist culture so if one takes them off you all have to take them off.

Response by MAJ Ronald Mandell made Mar 20 at 2018 12:30 PM

MAJ Ronald Mandell — Tue, 20 Mar 2018 12:30:08 -0400

I agree, Chief Kantor! Lots of stupid, counter productive stuff going on in the military. Perhaps, the only answer to your question is, “Because they can”.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Apr 7 at 2018 7:46 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Sat, 07 Apr 2018 19:46:02 -0400

So during PT you would rather overheat? It got damn warm on our 3-5 mile runs.