What Army or DoD policy addresses unprofessionalism in a group chat? Can someone be counseled for disrespecting an officer in a group chat?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 12:21:23 -0400

Is there a policy in the Army or Military in general regarding unprofessionalism in a Signal group chat?

Due to an INDIVIDUAL leaving the AO there were formations throughout the whole day for everyone.

I am part of whitecell and was detached to another part of whitecell for a detail. In the group chat we were told to put our names as "Rank Lastname, firstname" everyone did EXCEPT for the officer I've never met before in my life for all I know it could of been a E-1.

I stated "Whitecell child correctional facility status: *green check mark emoji*" in the group chat

After a SGT pushed out all the hit times I sent in the group saying "LMAOOOOO"

The SGT ONLY quoted the Lmao message and said to delete it and I did once I seen it a couple minute after.

The 1LT(I had no idea who it was at the time it could of been an E-1 for all I know at the time)
Asked after if I wanted to join.
I replied "Yes. I'll be there Thursday" since that's when my detail ended and we were regrouping with them then.
The 1LT said I'll be there now
I packed and got drove from my detail.

And he then said I was going to be getting a counseling for disrespecting an officer and recommended UCMJ action.

The reason for the counseling was "Disrespecting an officer" Marked First time offense

The counseling statement is SOLELY based on the conversation above and he added in that I was laughing at others suffering which is crazy since why would I want to say yes to joining if it's suffering. If anything it would be considered unprofessionalism at best.
I checked disagree and signed

Id also like to note that I've NEVER disrespected ANYONE especially any officer during my length of service.

I ETS in December (4 years 6 months of service AD) I completed capstone and signed reserve orders and going to start clearing soon.
The only (negative) counselings I've ever received was 1 FTR and then this one I'm currently talking about. During my length of service.

I'd appreciate any feedback from a perspective of individuals higher than me that could share their standpoint and outside view.

Thank you for your time.

Response by SFC Kelly Fuerhoff made Aug 31 at 2023 12:39 PM

SFC Kelly Fuerhoff — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 12:39:46 -0400

The LT sounds super petty. But if they felt disrespected, they can counsel you yes. I don't see how a first time counseling on being "disrespectful" would warrant UCMJ action. In fact, I'm pretty sure legal would laugh that Art 15 packet out the door if all that was attached was ONE counseling.

I don't know what your group chat looks like but I'm in a couple that have NCOs and officers and people are constantly posting GIFs and cracking jokes about stuff. So it sounds like you just have a really petty officer.

There is no specific regulation about decorum in a group chat but disrespecting an officer or NCO I believe is laid out in the AR on what could constitute that. I mean if you have to post your rank and name, I'd just not be lighthearted at all.

That LT can "recommend" all the UCMJ he wants it's not going to happen with one counseling and one incident of alleged disrespect. You said you disagreed with it. I'd say just keep your posts simple in that chat until you ETS and then you don't have to deal with petty LTs anymore. That counseling won't affect you getting out.

Response by CSM William Everroad made Aug 31 at 2023 12:48 PM

CSM William Everroad — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 12:48:27 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member, most Senior Leaders have not had to deal with Social Media on the way up to where we are now. But dealing with technology is continually evolving. First, nothing can replace face to face conversations. However, the foundation that our tenets of professionalism are built on do not rely on understanding who you are talking to. Ask a Signal NCO who has had to manage a signet.

The unfortunate thing is young leaders have taken to use text messaging and apps like signal to replace or significantly supplement normal verbal orders and conversations. The unfortunate thing for young Soldiers is that they treat them like SM or when speaking to a colleague or friend. No matter the platform, "I am a professional". While "LMAOOOOO" in a text message may not seem like a big deal to you, the LT and probably the SGT must have felt a certain way about your lack of "taking it serious", especially given the context.

Most of us have been counseled for any number of minor infractions from talking back, smart mouthing, asking too many questions, sock drawer in disarray. They, individually, reflect the culture that leader wants to install. Is everyone 100% in line with Army values or leadership models? No, but they have the authority to enforce standards and the flexibility to be creative, to an extent.

The thing about counselings, especially the ones we might classify as "trivial", is they really don't matter when you PCS or get new leadership. I have taken previous leader counselings with a grain of salt, especially if they are written poorly.

Now, if your example was included because the LT was requesting administrative punishment, we might have a conversation about why you think professional conduct standards would not apply on Signal or if you think replicating the typed words in person is appropriate. I think laughing out loud after instructions given by a duly appointed NCO or Officer would garner a reprimand of some kind in any setting. If you did not walk away learning what the leader thinks about that, they did a poor job counseling you and the form was a way to slap your wrist. An improper use of the counseling process, IMO. My recommendation to the Commander would be ODP regarding mentorship and counseling and let me and your 1SG handle you. I could see how unprofessionalism could be constructed as disrespect to an officer, and that would be the second focus of our conversation.

All that aside, checking disagree does not do anything. By checking that box, you are disagreeing with anything that is incorrect on the counseling statement including the character of the conversation, plan of action, leader responsibilities, key points of discussion, or any errors that may be contained in the administrative portion. This is not your opportunity to grandstand about how you think the leader is wrong in counseling you in the first place. If your feedback to the counselor was not captured in the key points of discussion, you check agree and add in your remarks your side that was communicated during the counseling but left off from key points.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Aug 31 at 2023 12:58 PM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 12:58:16 -0400

Group chat (if military groups for purpose of sharing work requirements) conversation carry with then the same as if in a room physically, there is no fire wall of safety. If the officer believed you knew that he was an officer and knew your grade he can of course counsel you and recommend whatever he likes. If the Company Commander agreed he would forward the request for the AR15 packet. From there he would have to speak to you, he may before, in order to determine the facts before rendering a secision, which you can appeal if you feel you have been wrongly judged.

Is he petty, not petty, feeling disrespected is what will be evaluated.

There is something to the fact that many folks feel more comfortable saying things in a chat as apposed to in person. This should be a lesson learned regardless of the outcome. Maintain your military bearing at all times.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 31 at 2023 4:31 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 16:31:14 -0400

You can be counciled for anything. To be punished under UCMJ a requirement of the offense of disrespect to an officer is that you know they're an officer.

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Aug 31 at 2023 7:52 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 19:52:29 -0400

. Article 89 (10 U.S.C. 889)—Disrespect toward
superior commissioned officer
(a) DISRESPECT.—Any person subject to this
chapter who behaves with disrespect toward that
person’s superior commissioned officer shall be
punished as a court-martial may direct.
The Commander would need to find your actions included one or more elements;
b. Elements.
(1) Disrespect toward superior commissioned
officer.
(a) That the accused did or omitted certain acts or
used certain language to or concerning a certain
commissioned officer;
(b) That such behavior or language was directed
toward that officer;
(c) That the officer toward whom the acts,
omissions, or words were directed was the superior
commissioned officer of the accused;
(d) That the accused then knew that the
commissioned officer toward whom the acts,
omissions, or words were directed was the accused’s
superior commissioned officer; and
(e) That, under the circumstances, the behavior or
language was disrespectful to that commissioned
officer.

Definition of disrespect
Disrespectful behavior is that which detracts from the respect due the authority and
person of a superior commissioned officer. It may consist of acts or language, however expressed, and it is immaterial whether they refer to the superior as an officer or as a private individual. Disrespect by words may be conveyed by abusive epithets or other contemptuous or denunciatory language. Truth is no defense. Disrespect by acts includes neglecting the customary salute, or showing a marked disdain,
indifference, insolence, impertinence, undue familiarity, or other rudeness in the presence of the
superior officer.

If an LT walked into our commander's office 1985-2013 (my years of service), providing a single counseling statement, and witness statement claiming they felt a SPC disrespected him in a group chat and requested the commander handle it through ART 15 procedures, id politely be asked to go check on something.....And then there would be a counseling session....and likely a critical professional review on whether that officer was worth the time and effort to retain in the unit.

Response by COL Dan Ruder made Aug 31 at 2023 9:42 PM

COL Dan Ruder — Thu, 31 Aug 2023 21:42:36 -0400

To my knowledge, there isn't a specific U.S. Army regulation that explicitly covers conversations in group chats on messaging platforms. As CSM Darieus ZaGara stated, you would conduct yourself online as if speaking face-to-face with the person or the group. In this regard, I think AR 600-20 (Army Command Policy) is a relevant reg, and the broader principles of maintaining professionalism would logically extend to how soldiers engage on social media platforms, including group chats. Army Command Policy doesn't provide detailed guidelines specifically focused on online interactions or group chats but does address the principles of professionalism and maintaining good order and discipline within the Army, which can extend to online conduct.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2023 6:42 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 18:42:11 -0400

IMHO, I think that it matters not that the Officer didn't have their rank posted. If this chat group was for official communications, then I can see where this Officer is coming from.

IMHO, can they counsel you for the perceived disrespect? Yes.

IMHO, recommending an Article 15 is a tad bit of an overshoot right off the bat. Personally, I would have counselled you and provided corrective training. Now, even if they submit a recommendation for Article 15 to the Commander, it will be up to that Commander to begin the process or not.

Your comms, while innocent in your perception, were apparently not innocent in another person's eyes. There is a certain decorum that you need to take when using official comms channels. This includes chat groups.

"Whitecell child correctional facility status: *green check mark emoji*" IMHO, is on the unprofessional side of the house for official comms.

Moving forward, even if you do not get the Article 15, check your military bearing and be professional at all times. Moving forward, consider a cell phone chat group the same as you would a SINCGARS radio conversation. There is always more than one set of ears and eyes on those conversations.

Let this be a good lesson learned.

Response by 1LT Private RallyPoint Member made Sep 1 at 2023 9:16 PM

1LT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 01 Sep 2023 21:16:35 -0400

That was stupid. I hope you see that. I would have counseled you as well, so I could have one on one time with you to show you how it was stupid, and make sure it was just your stupidity and not actual, intentional disrespect. Since you haven't presented a pattern of disrespect, this is a one-off thing, a perfect time to counsel you so you can be taught something, so it doesn't happen again.

Remember this as well, any form of written communication will always be absent of emotion. The physical tone and inflection of your voice in real conversation matters to what you mean to communicate, as does your body language. This means that written communication is very vulnerable to misunderstanding because it doesn't have those other cues. Misunderstanding happens all the time in the hundreds of group chats and emails between senior leaders that you don't see at your level, even though most of us are speaking with professionalism. It's just that easy to misunderstand someone, especially at the leader level when we are all stressed out and over worked. This is why I was taught, and teach others, to always follow up written conversation in person. You iron out the cold, faceless message with an in person chat. It's also why only the brave and truly bold ever attempt to make a joke over email or text, because it's so easy to misunderstand the tone of the message. Just don't do it, it's not worth the small laugh it might achieve.

Response by SGM Bill Frazer made Sep 13 at 2023 12:54 PM

SGM Bill Frazer — Wed, 13 Sep 2023 12:54:05 -0400

Suggest that you read the UCMJ- its cut and dry w/few exceptions, If the chat is conducting military business- then you're toast!