American flag wrapping baby, desecration?

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 18:04:41 -0400

Aside from the university in California that hates America, on Facebook there seems to be an uproar about done guy taking a pic in uniform with his baby cradled in an American flag. While I can appreciate the thought, it makes me cringe. I saw many service members defending it. I will copy/paste my comment and I'd like to hear your thoughts RP.

I assure you with 13 years and counting of military service, I love this country, and I love the flag that represents it. As another individual mentioned, there is a code of customs and courtesies associated with the flag to dictate how it is handled with dignity and respect. Having the privilege to have performed military honors at funerals, I can assure you everything about handling the flag is very specific. They way it's folded, how it should appear after folding, how it it rotated to be passed to the grieving etc. Everything about how the flag is handled with dignity and respect is specific. Those practices should always be preserved to maintain that sacred presence and reverence for the flag and what it stands for. It shouldn't be used as decor or a wrap for a photo. It also shouldn't be made into clothing (bikinis, boxers, jackets, etc.). Images of the flag upon clothing are deemed appropriate, but when the flag becomes the clothing itself, or a wrap, we are not observing those customs which are intended to show respect for the flag and love of country. I can greatly appreciate the sentiment and good hearted intention behind the photo, but it over looks the practice of actually holding the flag by a high and honorable standard. I don't think it's anything worth getting worked up about as some people seem to be. At least it attempts to be a very positive image, but it does make me cringe in the same way it makes me cringe to see flag bikinis, or stroller awnings, and so on. I hope you can appreciate my reasonable approach without it feeling like an attack. Most people don't even know that flag clothing is counter to code, and wear it with the mindset that it displays pride. Again, I can appreciate the sentiment, but I appreciate the code and adherence by it so much more, because it takes greater care and effort to observe it. Have a fantastic God-blessed American day!

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Mar 11 at 2015 8:02 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Wed, 11 Mar 2015 20:02:35 -0400

It is an improper use of the flag according to the flag code. I am sure intentions were good and they thought this was patriotic but it is not. There is a lot of this of late. People wrapping themselves in a flag sometimes scantily clad etc. It would be nice to see some flag etiquette taught in the military.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 9:21 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 09:21:55 -0400

I am for it. Why can't we be proud of our flag. Sure light up everyone that has ever used the flag (like having a baby in it - like the blanket of freedom we provide) and what is left is all those people burning it, stepping on it, and banning it.

If people are this anal about one thing, you better be anal about every line of rule/reg/law - so I best not catch you going 56 in a 55.

As if we don't have actual stuff to worry about.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 11:48 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 11:48:14 -0400

Right or wrong (I lean towards a little bit wrong) I'd much rather see this than some loser burning it in the name of free expression.

Response by PO3 John Jeter made Mar 12 at 2015 11:51 AM

PO3 John Jeter — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 11:51:10 -0400

This was the version I saw. I'm normally a stickler for flag etiquette, but the power of the emotion this image evokes leaves me, well, in the middle. Is it wrong by the rules? Yes. Can I fault it when it sums up everything we have stood for since our great nation was created in one photo? No. I can't even find it in me to apologize for that.

Response by Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS made Mar 12 at 2015 12:34 PM

Sgt Aaron Kennedy, MS — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 12:34:41 -0400

http://www.usflag.org/uscode36.html

Link is for those who want official information regarding Official US Flag Code.

But that said, the Flag is a Symbol. It represents all that is good and all that is bad about the United States of America. All that we are, and all that we strive to be. The code advises how we should treat that symbol, and is based on the Army & Navy guidelines previous to 1923.

USFlag.org: A website dedicated to the Flag of the UnitedStates of America - United States Code

Find answers to common and uncommon questions about the United States Flag and its evolution. Information on Flag etiquette and the U.S. Flag Code. Patriotic poems, hymns, and essays.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 1:14 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 13:14:35 -0400

I see this picture as a father serving in uniform, dedicating his life to the flag, while also demonstrating that the flag is a blanket of freedom, symbolically, rhetorically, or literally. He may also be using the flag as a form of baptism, bringing his son into the world, dedicating his son to the flag...as a form of culture, cultism, or otherwise. Let's try and see the good in it, not the bad. We can all view a picture and depending in the frame of mind, can pick it apart for the good it shows, or quote a flag code, in which very few of us know or follow. I respect our colors, I also hate it when people desecrate it literally, I don't think this Sailor meant to disgrace the flag in any manner. You get a few hard chargers leading the way, next thing you know this guy is getting death threats and commits suicide....what have we become? I say let it be...he wears the uniform, his child is protected by the very freedom he provides....you can agree or disagree. The flag provides those freedoms, let's not crucify one of our own over something I see, as damn patriotic and beautiful.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 1:16 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 13:16:38 -0400

I think it looks a lot like a massive amount of FREEDOM!!!

Our children should be cradled and protected in freedom from birth, I think this picture is symbolic of that. I don't think it displays the flag in a bad light...quite the contrary actually!

Response by MAJ Jim Steven made Mar 12 at 2015 1:18 PM

MAJ Jim Steven — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 13:18:17 -0400

What about skimpy bikinis of The Flag pattern on the beach??
Is that honor, or disrespect??
Or does it depend how hot the woman is?
I look for things to ruin my day....

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 12 at 2015 1:43 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 13:43:57 -0400

I've been told I am based on a Black and white mental and literal place.. IOW I see things in absolutes, just told that yesterday as a matter of fact.
my position on this topic clearly disagrees with that observation.

Id say IAW the US Flag code, wrapping a baby is not appropriate. But personally i see it as a respectfully, personal and appropriate use, display.

Response by LTC Stephen C. made Mar 12 at 2015 1:59 PM

LTC Stephen C. — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 13:59:41 -0400

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member, I appreciate the sentiment, and in the scheme of things, this is not some huge earth shattering big deal. However, Title 4, 8. (d) of the United States Code states that the flag should not be used as "wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery". Further the codes even suggests that the use of "bunting of blue, white, and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white in the middle, and the red below...for a decoration in general" could have been used to achieve a similar effect without the use of the U.S. flag. That's the approach I would have taken, and what I would have suggested for this sailor or anyone else.
Related paragraphs in Title 4:
8. (h) The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying,
or delivering anything.
8. (j) No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 2:25 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 14:25:24 -0400

So if someone where to wrap a wounded service member in the flag and someone got a picture of that I wonder what people would say. Point being this picture to me say one thing I love America and America loves you back.

Response by SFC Roger Senatore made Mar 12 at 2015 2:40 PM

SFC Roger Senatore — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 14:40:01 -0400

I don't see a problem with this in the context of art. There is no intent of disrespect, or any other negative intent, toward the flag or the United States of America; I'd say the opposite is true. If I saw a person actually using the flag as a literal blanket in anything other than an emergency situation I'd have a problem with it, but that is not what is happening here.

If you have an issue with this photo, I'd say, lighten up, and be thankful for any positive image of the flag.

Response by LTC Dallas Powell made Mar 12 at 2015 2:43 PM

LTC Dallas Powell — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 14:43:05 -0400

I'd say it's wrong by the letter of the law -- but not the spirit of the law. Anyone who thinks this is a "desecration" of the flag needs to check their patriotism.

Response by MGySgt Douglas C. made Mar 12 at 2015 2:45 PM

MGySgt Douglas C. — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 14:45:37 -0400

A sailor proud of his service and loving his newborn infant can be excused for this indiscretion. The photographer was trying to make an artistic statement of love and patriotism. All of this is excusable. The amount of vitriol aimed at these individuals is not.
Social media and the righteous indignation of the users might be what actually brings down our society. No one on this site or any other is perfect and all of us have made mistakes. We learn from them and move forward.
I feel certain that both this sailor and the photographer will do the same and never make the mistake of using a National Ensign instead of bunting for future photographs.
I am also certain that if my NCO's, SNCO's and Officers were as intolerant of mistakes as most of the posters here, I would have been kicked out of the Marines as a young PFC, not retired as a MGySgt.
Just the ramblings of an old retired MGySgt of Marines, so jump if you will. You will not hurt my feelings as I have been told many times that I have none.

Response by SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 3:28 PM

SSG(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 15:28:31 -0400

Your question is proof that two people can look at something and see something entirely different. I see Nothing negative about this...I only see this as beauty, patriotism, Americanism, a strong sense of nationalism...I guess if you're a by - the - book type...this would blow your stack. I think a veteran should be able to do anything he damn well pleases with the flag...he wore it, he fought for it, he defended it, and it get draped across your coffin if you die for it....

Response by MSG David Chappell made Mar 12 at 2015 3:44 PM

MSG David Chappell — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 15:44:46 -0400

I see this as a child wrapped in the protection of the United States I don't see this as offensive on the contrary I see this as a symbol. In the last 15 years I have seen my flag burned, stepped on and desecrated for "art". This image is inspiring.

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 3:53 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 15:53:21 -0400

As long as the flag is represented in a respectful manner, I see no issues with it. To me this flag represents two things he is proud of: His Country, and his Child. I see no issues with this.

I do tend to cringe when I see flag pants, bikinis, bandanas. There is no meaning or representation with this to me. In my mind, people who wear clothes made of the flag are screaming "Look at ME!", while using the flag to cover their ass. The respectful manner in this case does not exist.

Response by PV2 Alaina Norman made Mar 12 at 2015 5:59 PM

PV2 Alaina Norman — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 17:59:36 -0400

I have seen some articles about this jumping around and its crazy. I don't see any issues on it, they're not disrespecting the flag at all. Shoot i thought it was a fun way to do a photo

Response by SGM Erik Marquez made Mar 12 at 2015 6:00 PM

SGM Erik Marquez — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 18:00:15 -0400

How much more honor could a parent show to our flag, then to wrap and intrust their child in it?
I like my dogs more than most people I know,,, but I love my children more than all. The only thing I'm upset about in that original posted picture is....I did not think of it first.

Response by MSgt Jamie Lyons made Mar 12 at 2015 6:08 PM

MSgt Jamie Lyons — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 18:08:13 -0400

LTC Dallas Powell I believe summed it up nicely. It is the spirit of law we find it beautiful. I also dont believe I have ever heard anyone get upset when they use the flag on napkins and plates on patrotiv holidays. We accept this in the spirit as well. IMO it was well done.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Mar 12 at 2015 6:16 PM

LTC Paul Labrador — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 18:16:36 -0400

I think it's a matter of context. Yes, wearing the flag or using the flag as a blanket, bag, etc can be very offensive, espcially if it'd done in a way intended to mock the flag. This was not an intent to mock. It was intended to show symbolism of a patriot from birth. And since my coffin will be covered by the flag when they put me into the ground, I personnally don't have an issue with it in this context.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 8:39 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 20:39:29 -0400

I am going to go after your feelings here...

I think a few things are happening when we see criticism these days. For one, I think that we (the military/veteran population) have become so technical and serious about rules and policy that we've lost sight of emotion in imagery. We all have our opinions but there was no intent of desecration or disrespect with these photos. As in criminal law, there must be criminal-intent. I think the same should apply for something like this. Instead of criticizing and allowing it to anger us, we might instead look at the intention of the photo and it's meaning. Again, we will all have our own opinions.

People have been making clothing, patches, hats, paint jobs, and blankets for 100s of years, in the image of the American flag. This may go against flag-code, but in a time where people are trying to alltogether BAN the American flag and in some cases destroy what it stands for, perhaps we should be more willing to embrace it's positive symbolism.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 12 at 2015 9:11 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Mar 2015 21:11:09 -0400

this paints a big picture it says a lot to me patriotism freedom and the cycle goes on father serving then son takes over and it looks cool

Response by SFC Collin McMillion made Mar 13 at 2015 9:58 AM

SFC Collin McMillion — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 09:58:09 -0400

I truly don't see any disrespect represented in this picture. I see a child being honored for being born in America, the land of the free, home of the brave. Please ease up on the AR'S. He was not using the flag as a diaper, he used it as a symbol of pride. Sometimes it is best to look at the good, not read a set of rules in order to make everything bad and let your conscious be your guide.

Response by CPT Michael Maag made Mar 13 at 2015 11:42 AM

CPT Michael Maag — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 11:42:31 -0400

http://www.vanessahicksphotography.com/contact-me/ Ms Hicks is getting exposure for her picture.. which I am thankfull to view just like the One above.. we fight for Our Children to be Cradled in the Love of Our Country.. and we hope they feel covered by our commitment.. thank Ms. Hicks for doing another great photo showing our country is Covering our loved ones.. Mick

Contact Me

Vanessa Hicks is a portrait, family and wedding photographer serving all of the Northern California, including Monterey, Seaside, Salinas, San Francisco, Santa Cruz, and San Jose. Contact today for more information!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 3:36 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 15:36:49 -0400

If the flag can be wrapped around your casket when you die (something you are presumably inside of), then I don't see why it can't be wrapped around you when you are born. This is not disrespectful at all, and the people issuing death threats to the photographer need to go suck start a shotgun.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 3:45 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 15:45:12 -0400

After reading the comments on this thread and some soul searching of myself. There is a proper etiquette on the use of the flag. Although many do not know or care what it is. With that said, it seems many are making a mountain out of a mole hill. Many never scrutinize Olympians draping themselves in the flag but yet we criticize this sailor who may believe in this symbol of freedom so much they are proud it surrounds their newborn child. I for one am willing to let it slid especially not knowing what this young sailors thoughts are in wrapping this newborn child in the symbol of freedom. It is their flag as much as it is ours. And I am sure blood, sweat and tears have been shed for it.

Response by CW2 Joseph Evans made Mar 13 at 2015 3:53 PM

CW2 Joseph Evans — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 15:53:56 -0400

Not the first photo of this type, won't be the last... That said, it artistically portrays everything I believe the United States is and should be. Family, Country, Service, Freedom... and the ability to enjoy all that without judgment.

Response by Capt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 5:15 PM

Capt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 17:15:36 -0400

Let's not forget that we have a group of people who stand on the flag as they protest at the funerals of our fallen service members. And the Supreme Court said that was freedom of speech.

Response by Sgt Jennifer Mohler made Mar 13 at 2015 6:55 PM

Sgt Jennifer Mohler — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 18:55:40 -0400

Images like this are marketed to us all the time. No one cares about all the other advertisements and such, I don't understand why this image is the one everyone flips their gourds about.

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 6:59 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 18:59:02 -0400

I may or may not agree with what you do with this simple piece of cloth. I, as well as the rest of you, did swear an oath to defend your right to do what you will with it. Whether burning it or cradling your newborn in it.

The Supreme Court of the United States has ruled that burning our flag is "protected speech" under the 1st Amendment to the Constitution of the United States. There is no reason to believe that this would be looked at any differently. The purpose of the Code is to guide us in handling our National Ensign with dignity and respect. However, when there is a conflict between the code and the Constitution of the United States, the Constitution of the United States MUST take precedence.

Response by LCpl Mark Lefler made Mar 13 at 2015 7:33 PM

LCpl Mark Lefler — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 19:33:49 -0400

To me this photo is so full of American Awesome. There is so much symbolism in it, one could do a class on this photo alone. I'm glad they did it. What it stands for is what we all want for our country, a place our families can live free under the envelope of democracy.

Response by SGT Chris Reese made Mar 13 at 2015 7:45 PM

SGT Chris Reese — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 19:45:21 -0400

I see this as a father showing his trust in America to keep his child safe and to blanket his child in liberty and freedom.

Response by LCpl Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 9:45 PM

LCpl Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 21:45:34 -0400

Funeral detail Marine here. I'm going with "No." for the same reason that I hate it when various models use the flag as a cover, or some idiot wears the colors as a cape. The flag is not a prop. Using it as such is disrespectful to the colors, and the men and women I've laid to rest under those colors. Constantly having the need to slap the flag on everything, or wear the colors in the form of bikinis, head wraps and what the fuck ever else there is out there strikes me as wal-mart patriotism.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 13 at 2015 10:05 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 22:05:24 -0400

I think this picture is very powerful. Besides we let Americans burn the flag without repercussions.

Response by 1LT David Moeglein made Mar 13 at 2015 10:32 PM

1LT David Moeglein — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 22:32:49 -0400

There's something pretty awesome about our country, when one of its service members feels inspired to artistically express his love of an innocent child in the symbol of the most powerful country on Earth.

Response by SSG (ret) William Martin made Mar 13 at 2015 10:46 PM

SSG (ret) William Martin — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 22:46:36 -0400

Where was the outrage with obese (or anyone for that matter) women wrapped themselves up in the colors for a "photo shoot" under a tree or by a river. The baby in the colors with the father in uniform is a symbol of why I serve, to protect the ones who can't do it for themselves.

Response by LCpl Eric Garneau made Mar 13 at 2015 11:01 PM

LCpl Eric Garneau — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 23:01:33 -0400

I feel she has earned the right do to this. She puts on that uniform to defend the flag that she has wrapped her baby in. So it is like she is saying she is defending her baby!

Response by LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® made Mar 13 at 2015 11:06 PM

LTC David S. Chang, ChFC®, CLU® — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 23:06:19 -0400

I really was shocked at the outrage. I thought it was tasteful and someone who was proud of their service and the flag.

This reminds me of Rocky's in Rocky 4 draping himself with the American flag. Is there anything wrong with this?

Response by Capt Richard I P. made Mar 13 at 2015 11:35 PM

Capt Richard I P. — Fri, 13 Mar 2015 23:35:25 -0400

To the flag or to the baby?

Response by PO2 Jim Johnson made Mar 14 at 2015 12:33 AM

PO2 Jim Johnson — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 00:33:02 -0400

As it is up for opinion, I'm going to say I don't see a cringe factor at all. Perhaps you could think about ever Olympic athlete who poorly drapes our flag over their shoulders for a win that didn't involve combat. No one dumps on a large breasted NASCAR fan in a flag bikini, like this picture has caused drama for the photographer and the sailor. I've seen our flag burnt in under the guise of artistic expression and I have had to tolerate that as a first amendment right. If for whatever reason you may not back this photo, that is your right you have earned an opinion due to service. Just remember that you have also served to defend the rights of the 99% who didn't serve yet have the same rights because of your bravery. Be a patriotic individual and support the photographer and the sailor. Division of our ranks over this beautiful photo is unacceptable.

Response by PO1 John Miller made Mar 14 at 2015 2:09 AM

PO1 John Miller — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 02:09:12 -0400

Other people have said it, but I'll say it too. To me this picture is not offensive.

My Shipmate is using the flag as a symbol of the blanket of freedom it provides to US citizens and is also signifying that he will lay down his life if necessary to defend the freedom of our country and his baby. He is also signifying that children are the future of America.

And if you disagree with me, that's your choice and right. But it's also my right to tell you to kiss my Red, White and (Navy) Blue ass.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Mar 14 at 2015 2:48 AM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 02:48:40 -0400

To me this Sailor is making a statement, a good statement saying he/she put his/her life on the line so this child can rest in freedom, peace and a good life. I don't believe our founding fathers would have any objection to this usage either. I'm guessing they'd have more positive to say about this pic than a university who's students have ban the flying of our National Colors.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2015 7:27 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 07:27:12 -0400

I didn't even give this photo a second thought. We have a beautiful flag, which stands for so much. It's a beautiful baby, and a beautiful photo.

Response by MSgt Dennis Dudley made Mar 14 at 2015 8:56 AM

MSgt Dennis Dudley — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 08:56:45 -0400

How come I don't see this much of an uproar when someone burns our flag?

Response by PO1 John Meyer, CPC made Mar 14 at 2015 12:12 PM

PO1 John Meyer, CPC — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 12:12:35 -0400

I can see both sides of this, but I like the figurative part. I like the idea that this baby is being cradled in the freedom Old Glory represents.

Response by PO1 Shefiron Seamster made Mar 14 at 2015 12:30 PM

PO1 Shefiron Seamster — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 12:30:05 -0400

I actually love this picture it speaks volumes.

Response by PV2 Abbott Shaull made Mar 14 at 2015 3:13 PM

PV2 Abbott Shaull — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 15:13:43 -0400

I can understand where this makes some people upset. Yet, with lot of things I have done with the flag, it is one of the least disrespectful things I have seen. But I also see the symbolism that so many who have lodge complaints have missed in this.

Response by SSG Stephen Arnold made Mar 14 at 2015 3:28 PM

SSG Stephen Arnold — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 15:28:10 -0400

I have no problem with the photo. In fact, I believe that it represents patriotism as well as the current and future of it in this country.

I have a bigger problem with a state university banning it in the student government offices (I know, it was later vetoed).

If anything, the symbolism in this photo honors the flag and the things it symbolizes.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2015 3:57 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 15:57:03 -0400

I judged the picture first before reading the title. I was actually impressed with it. I say that because I have a little two year old and it just made me think of my military service, her, my wife and the hardships that come along with it. I think anyone's idea on this will be based a-lot on their stance of various things and there is no right or wrong answer here. As long as it is not meant out of disrespect, the little one in the picture reminds me of why we fight for our young nation.

Response by Sgt Jim H. made Mar 14 at 2015 4:50 PM

Sgt Jim H. — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 16:50:16 -0400

What does the flag code say about using the American flag as a symbol in a creative artistic expression?

It is apparent to me; this photograph is an artistic expression. The participants are staging this event to depict something symbolic. The American flag is being utilized symbolically in this photo. There is no evidence at all that the parents of this baby actually carry the baby around in an American flag all day, or use the American flag as bedding in the baby's crib, or use the American flag as clothing.

Before this topic appeared on Rally Point I observed an article about it on Fox News. The photographer, as I recall, is the wife of a serviceman. She was subjected to heavy criticism and her life and health were threatened for taking the photograph. I find any threats against her far more reprehensible than the possibility that the photographer used the American flag contrary to the flag code. Criticism is the price one pays for expressing an opinion, even an artistic opinion intended to inspire not to offend. The reward, for the artist, is the thought that something the artist created might positively affect the consciousness of others.

I found this photograph inspiring. I'm glad the photographer shared it with us.

Response by SFC Michael Jackson, MBA made Mar 14 at 2015 6:53 PM

SFC Michael Jackson, MBA — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 18:53:54 -0400

People are being too sensitive here. This isn't and shouldn't be an issue here. This is nothing than the military family proud of country and profession.

Response by COL Charles Williams made Mar 14 at 2015 10:02 PM

COL Charles Williams — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 22:02:04 -0400

This is such a cool photo!!!! I see nothing wrong or disrespectful with it; certainly not desecration. We wear that flag, we protect that flag, and we more than any other should be able to decide what the left and right limits are. Calling this desecration, or even wrong, would be akin to saying an USA olympic gold medal winner was wrong for running around wrapped in a flag... This is just media hype.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2015 11:08 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 23:08:49 -0400

I dont see what the big deal is? I thought it was a very moving picture. I dont any disrespect being done here at all. Id be more upset at that "college" in CA that refuses to fly the US Flag.

Response by SPC Patrick Gearardo made Mar 14 at 2015 11:18 PM

SPC Patrick Gearardo — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 23:18:10 -0400

Is it desecration when an American Olympian just won Gold and is doing a lap with the American flag wrapped around him? I think not.

The problem lies in:

1. Sore butt complex - This occurs when the politically correct crowd start taking over. Over sensitivity runs rampant among the young and foolish and starts to spread to the older generation.

2. Social media - Enough said. Pictures, pictures everywhere. No where to hide, everyone's doing something right or wrong and getting judged. No privacy anymore.

3. American values disappearing - At what point did flag burning become cool? At what turning point in America did 'God' become evil? Schools trying to ban the American flag, you can't say the Pledge of Allegiance in schools, and now a picture of a U.S. Soldier with his child in an American flag is wrong.

I love that picture, it speaks volumes of his love for America and his child. This never should have been an issue.

But think about it, just before that, the world raged about a gold dress. Go figure.

Response by ENS Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 14 at 2015 11:59 PM

ENS Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 14 Mar 2015 23:59:42 -0400

As long as the flag wasn't made in China!!

This picture is one of the reasons why I wear a uniform! I'm proud to fight for the freedom of people to take such a patriotic picture.

Response by SFC Brian Lehnhardt made Mar 15 at 2015 12:16 AM

SFC Brian Lehnhardt — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 00:16:10 -0400

As a photographer, I appreciate the art that is happening here. Like many of you, I also see both sides of the argument. Is it against the U.S. Flag Code? The point could be argued. Is it done in a disrespectful way? Absolutely not. Should I go running out and blast the photographer for her use of the flag in this manner? No I won't. I'm just going to let the symbolism and artistic license be the voice here. The Dude abides.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 7:38 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 07:38:31 -0400

Honestly the picture is beautiful in my opinion and though I can see why people would get angry when seeing this picture I also feel that the idea behind it makes it some what better. Could they have gone about this in a different manor of course but people seem to care about the wrong things now. Why are we throwing a fit about this when college students want to remove flags from the campus and people feel the need to remove all flags from certain cemeteries. I feel our focus is off on his one.

Response by MSG Dan Foster made Mar 15 at 2015 10:52 AM

MSG Dan Foster — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 10:52:06 -0400

WO1 Beauchamp, I too appreciate the code. It makes me cringe to see the flag flying from a pole tattered, to see a flag used as a table cloth, to see a flag burned and stomped on by protesters, to see a flag in a dumpster or trash can disposed of improperly. I could list many more but not this picture of this baby cradled in the flag. A picture is worth a thousand words and in my book this picture is worth a thousand positive, uplifting, patriotic and spiritual words. The thing that bothers me most is that I didn't think of it first. (;-) Be Safe!

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 11:58 AM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 11:58:48 -0400

Thank you all for your great input. in all honesty I'm a bit done with a million notifications haha. But really, thank you for so much input that was well thought out and a genuine discussion rather than only "well I think!". Great dialogue! All in all, I find myself much less irked by the photos than before, though I still wouldn't do it myself. I have an aversion to mushy sappy stuff my wife tries to break anyway. I even wrote to Ms. Hicks when someone provided her business contact link. Relax, I told hour how I felt about it but thanked her for the great consideration and pride behind the intent, and that I would never discourage anyone from her business because of it, including myself. Wished her the best for for and her business, so no, I wasn't a dying about it! (Is "dong" an acceptable alternative?...next discussion!)

Response by GySgt Terrence Fry made Mar 15 at 2015 12:57 PM

GySgt Terrence Fry — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 12:57:08 -0400

Excuse me if someone has already posted this question. Is this different in comparison to an athlete drapeing themselves in the National Ensign during the Olympics?

Response by MSgt Wayne Morris made Mar 15 at 2015 5:54 PM

MSgt Wayne Morris — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 17:54:55 -0400

I would much rather see our flag used for a heart warming picture like this then on someone's backside as a pair of shorts.

Response by PFC Rodolfo Olague made Mar 15 at 2015 6:51 PM

PFC Rodolfo Olague — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 18:51:52 -0400

I get the symbolism ..but there's definitely a lot of of interpretation to be had with this one.. i've gotten a similar picture like this done for my son when he was born while i served.. but.. it wasn't an actual flag.. i'd have to agree that it was for me a symbol of everything i was fighting for wrapped in one shot.. my family.. my country.. my flag.

Response by SGT Mark Sullivan made Mar 15 at 2015 7:29 PM

SGT Mark Sullivan — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 19:29:55 -0400

I see no problem with this pic, this is not desecration of the Flag, this is what we all serve for. So our children can grow up under a banner that stands for Life, Liberty and Freedom. The symbolism in this one picture, is worth more than any words could be spoken about why we serve

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 15 at 2015 9:43 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 21:43:38 -0400

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/american-flag-wrapping-baby-desecration Look at this thread for your answer SGT Joseph Jones

Response by Sgt Cody Dumont made Mar 15 at 2015 9:53 PM

Sgt Cody Dumont — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 21:53:00 -0400

These are patriots, the images show how Marines, Sailors, Soldiers, and Airmen protect the country.

Response by SGT Joseph Jones made Mar 15 at 2015 10:05 PM

SGT Joseph Jones — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 22:05:31 -0400

I didn't realize you posted this I also posed the question too. I see it as patriotic all flag "rules" are not rules they are suggestions. This is showing the protection lady Liberty the Stars and Stripes and these men ensure their children have. My daughter was born while I was down range. I love these.

Response by SGT Joseph Jones made Mar 15 at 2015 10:11 PM

SGT Joseph Jones — Sun, 15 Mar 2015 22:11:39 -0400

In the code of conduct you talk about it says you "SHOULDNT" do this or that not don't. It says you shouldn't drape it off the side of a bus or train. Yet in parades it's done all the time. If your mounting it to a vehicle it should be mounted on the right side on the frame. There's a bunch of rules. But they aren't in stone. Just like making clothing that looks like a flag people do it. I see veteran females wrapped in the flag and nothing else in calendars that's disgraceful this has taste and is a nice sentiment and if daddy passed away when she is 2-6 years old this picture will be the greatest thing she can hold on to. I almost tear up anytime I hear the anthem played and or Bagpipes from a funeral. I've had to present my Grandmkther with the flag for my grandfathers funeral and it's means a lot to people. It's representing protection in this picture. Nothing more or less.

Response by CN Lorena Welch made Mar 16 at 2015 2:17 AM

CN Lorena Welch — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 02:17:47 -0400

Just was asked to approve this on my fb page and could not. I too understand there is a code of ethics with the flag. I too understand the desire of those in the pictures to send a message of the American Soldier, Marine, Sailor etc.being the protector of the freedoms of the next generation. However the image of a naked child in the flag, I had a hard time. Personally my pride in my country and her colors keeps me feeling I'll at ease. Your response was well worded.

Response by SSG Christopher Freeman made Mar 16 at 2015 9:25 AM

SSG Christopher Freeman — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 09:25:30 -0400

I don't find any issue with it. With that in mind, I can see where people are upset about it. We as Americans show our flag more than any other country. This could be a case of extreme patriotism. Do I think that it should've garnered as much attention as it did: no. Is it displayed in a disrespectful manner: no. But to some, that flag is very personal, and that could be where the issue stems from.

Response by SSG Paul Lanciault made Mar 16 at 2015 11:22 AM

SSG Paul Lanciault — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:22:42 -0400

A symbol of American freedom cradling and protecting its future, being held by one who swore to protect that freedom and future with his life. Whats the problem? If there is one, maybe we served for the wrong reasons.

Response by SCPO David Lockwood made Mar 16 at 2015 11:37 AM

SCPO David Lockwood — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:37:25 -0400

I concur with everything you stated WO1, however I also view this picture as a love between a Sailor, his country and his or her child. There is no greater love than passing on your love and passion on to your children. In this case I see the Sailor wrapping his or her child, whom he or she loves very much, in a representation (the US Flag) that they would give everything for to defend it and his or her child. My thoughts.

Response by SGT Scott Bailey made Mar 16 at 2015 11:45 AM

SGT Scott Bailey — Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:45:04 -0400

I agree. The military needs to instruct members on proper handling of our flag. Not just the basics. I was never taught the procedures for handling the flag thoroughly in basic training. But i do display the proper procedures on my office wall. We need to get back to our roots and learn about sacred things like the flag. America needs to be proud. And the best way to show your pride is byrespecting and honoring sacred American traditions.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 5:36 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 05:36:48 -0400

The America I fight for IS my family. With that said her child being held in the American flag makes me, as a combat veteran/mother myself, tear up with pride and a feeling of honor. I am sure that is exactly how this mother felt. Shame on anyone who bashes her for loving and protecting her family and America!

Response by LCpl Mark Williams made Mar 17 at 2015 7:21 AM

LCpl Mark Williams — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 07:21:20 -0400

I can see what what the service men is saying. How ever if George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, and the other signers of our country, were alive today, they would look at that a a baby that is born into freedom and in the USA. Which is a great sign of passion for our country.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 17 at 2015 7:43 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 07:43:18 -0400

People are outraged about this!? That's nonsense. You can find pictures of models (male or female) who are actually nude using the United States flag to cover themselves while doing sexy poses
The photographer is getting heat for this and she served in the military. Swadling a baby in the flag isn't disrespectful.

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Mar 17 at 2015 4:02 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Tue, 17 Mar 2015 16:02:06 -0400

Chief, you should redo this as a poll with an option for comments. I'm pretty sure they results are predictable. I'm in agreement with the vast majority of people who see nothmng wrong with it.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 8:44 AM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 08:44:44 -0400

For those who are upset about the picture, why isn't there an uproar when olympic winners use the flag as a cap to run around the track after they have won. Someone shed some light on that. Inquiring minds want to know.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 18 at 2015 2:02 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Mar 2015 14:02:01 -0400

All the crap going on in the world and we are worried about this?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 25 at 2015 11:34 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 25 Mar 2015 23:34:10 -0400

I'd say it looks like a display of patriotism. Most people don't know the flag code and there are plenty of people that respect the flag and the country but don't agree with parts of the flag code.

If I can accept that people have a right to burn the flag as part of their freedom of speech, I can easily accept and even support an image like this.

I also wonder what kind of image it portrays when people rant and rave about an image like this, not those that politely disagree but the foaming-at-the-mouth-issuing-death-threats fanatics. When this child grows up, hopefully he/she can look back on that picture with pride. But I feel like a Google search might actually turn up a lot of hateful talk that might make that person instead dislike a country that takes itself so seriously that it demeans those to take pride in being a part of it.

Response by SSG Robert Burns made Mar 26 at 2015 12:27 AM

SSG Robert Burns — Thu, 26 Mar 2015 00:27:23 -0400

I must have missed something. Did the baby poop or what?

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Mar 26 at 2015 12:30 PM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Mar 2015 12:30:53 -0400

If we bury our men and women in service under the flag, Shouldn't we be able to raise them in it? I see it as a hopeful and patriotic thing to do.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 9:36 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 21:36:37 -0400

This is my personal opinion only.

At no point is he disrespecting the flag. The baby is properly swaddled, so it will not get the flag dirty. And, as I learned from my days in the BSA, if a flag gets dirty, you ARE allowed to clean it (AKA the "touch the ground = retire the flag" concept is bogus), so none of what could happen would desecrate the flag. This is an attempt by a man to show respect, at least in my mind. Respect for the nation, for the flag, and for his child. When I first saw the picture, I thought "Cool." and went on about my day. Honest truth, that's still my thought. Nothing more, nothing less.

Response by SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. made Apr 14 at 2015 10:11 PM

SPC Jan Allbright, M.Sc., R.S. — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:11:40 -0400

Did the baby poop?

Response by SPC Angel Guma made Apr 14 at 2015 10:18 PM

SPC Angel Guma — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:18:38 -0400

This actually seems very patriotic. Stop crucifying the photographer.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 14 at 2015 10:20 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 14 Apr 2015 22:20:07 -0400

this is by far cry better than a picture of the flag being burned

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 20 at 2015 5:31 PM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Apr 2015 17:31:10 -0400

Only if the baby poops in it...

jk

Personally, I LOVE the symbolism this picture conveys. There is nothing wrong, IMHO, with this what this sailor did.

Response by Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay made May 12 at 2015 8:17 AM

Sgt Ramon Nacanaynay — Tue, 12 May 2015 08:17:49 -0400

I did a websearch on the Philippine KKK flag and found that the Sons of Confederate Veterans have been "fighting" against the KKK for use of the Confederate flag and that the KKK have been flying the American flag for decades.

Response by CW3 Private RallyPoint Member made May 19 at 2015 9:34 PM

CW3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 19 May 2015 21:34:14 -0400

No, it's not desecration. And those who issued death threats to the photographer need to suck start a shotgun.

Response by SGT Jonathan Williams made May 19 at 2015 10:27 PM

SGT Jonathan Williams — Tue, 19 May 2015 22:27:51 -0400

...unless that flag is unfolded and laid flat I can't tell the authenticity. Perhaps it is a partial flag. But then again, I like to gaze at my naval.

I hope my point here is clear.

Response by SFC Chad Sowash made Jul 2 at 2015 10:35 AM

SFC Chad Sowash — Thu, 02 Jul 2015 10:35:54 -0400

des·e·crate (ˈdesəˌkrāt/) - verb
treat (a sacred place or thing) with violent disrespect; violate.
I would easily say in this photo no... Now, if it was used as a diaper, then yes... There's no violent disrespect shown, rather someone trying to represent their holding Country and Family as one.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 20 at 2015 12:36 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Oct 2015 00:36:59 -0400

I think the context is appropriate. The baby born in a cradle of freedom. Perhaps the flag code should be modified to give some flexibility (ie not shown in a disrespectful context)

Response by SPC David Willis made Nov 28 at 2017 4:56 PM

SPC David Willis — Tue, 28 Nov 2017 16:56:22 -0500

Flag code (while not a legally binding law) seems to be observed very selectively. Want to burn the flag as a protest? Well that's un-American. Want to wear the flag on your swim suit? That's just patriotic bro! Want to kneel for the anthem? Get out of our country! Want to sell beer wrapped in the flag? Budweisers American as fu*k! Its not a buffet where you can pick and chose what you want to put on your plate and leave behind. I revert to the 1A when it comes to flags/displays of patriotism, as long as its not done in a seditious way or during armed revolt Ill fight for your right to do whatever you want to the flag even though I may hope you burn in hell for doing it.