Accommodations That Must Be Made To Allow Women In Combat Arms And SOF Jobs

SSG Lon Watson — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 11:47:54 -0400

Well the day has finally arrived: the military has been ordered by national command authority to allow women in all combat arms and special operations forces (SOF) jobs. Yaaaaaaay! Bravo!! Hooah! The glass ceiling is shattered!

Wait! Not so fast; there are a few accommodations that must be made in order to facilitate this transition.

However, the accommodations must be made by the women themselves! Yes, you heard right - the women will need to adapt as much, if not more, than the men to this new development.

I have worked in combat arms units, airborne units, and worked with conventional and SOF units. My remarks today are educated and based on experience.

Women will need to meet the same standard as men. Combat doesn’t accommodate to the lowest common denominator. There are two standards in combat: victory or death! A unit can only move as fast as the slowest individual, and so this is relative to the whole unit’s abilities. So where do we draw the line? Since male PT standards have been the standard for infantry, and since females are only just joining these particular units, it makes sense that we continue accepting the same degree of fitness by age group, regardless of gender.

And remember, the minimum standard is just that: minimum. Every elite school from Infantry to Rangers to Special Forces to Basic Underwater Demolition SEAL (BUDS) training preaches that if you shoot for the minimum, you have about a 85% chance of failing. In fact, the Navy has done extensive studies on their physical assessment test and has found that people who have run and swim times in the top 90% usually have no trouble passing the BUDS course. (Well, no trouble passing might be an oversimplification.)

If women want to perform in combat, they need to be held to the same standard as men are in order to maintain a strong force.

Women need to be able to meet the “unwritten” day to day standards of the unit. What does that mean? It means, for example, if you are in an airborne infantry unit and they do a twelve mile forced march with a 50 pound pack every Thursday, you need to be able to keep up without slowing the whole unit’s pace or using a lighter load. I once knew a 5 foot 3 inch British fellow who immigrated here, joined the Infantry, served in the Ranger Battalion and the 82nd Airborne and retired as a Command Sergeant Major. He was a beast who was able to carry the same loads as everyone else. Women will have to maintain these same standards, regardless of their body size or frame. Regardless of your gender, you need to be able to carry a soldier of your approximate weight in full kit for 100 yards. Now this is written nowhere in doctrine, but anyone who has served in a combat arms or elite unit know this is the case. Of course, no one expects the 5 foot 3 inch guy to carry the 6 foot 4 inch 220 pound man, but you need to be able to carry a soldier of your comparable weight. Will you ever need to? Probably not, but combat doesn’t have a minimum standard.

As a woman you MUST be able to be strong enough to physically handle the daily grind of the unit without any accommodation that wouldn’t be given a male.

Upper body strength. Everyone is required to do 5-7 pull-ups, dead hang pull ups with no kipping.

An infantry soldier who can’t do 50 or more perfect push-ups is fooling themselves. I can’t stress this enough: make peace with muscle mass and strength training. I think some women may be afraid of looking too bulky, but if you want to be combat arms you must make peace with that. Your motto needs to be “train like a man, look like a goddess.”

You must make body composition modifications for this career. I am 6 foot 2 inches and 240 pounds. When I played full-contact, semi-pro football, I tried to get as close to 250 pounds as I could. When I had myself recalled to active duty to deploy, my body weight was between 228-235 pounds at the heaviest. You will have to build more mass to be a grunt, Ranger, or SEAL...period. A man might be able to stay the same size and do the job effectively but I believe that a woman is simply not as strong naturally. To do the same job, women will need muscle.

You will need to adapt to the infantry culture! The infantry culture is not going to adapt to you. What that means is combat arms guys are going to talk about stuff that will make you uncomfortable. They will talk about their girlfriends and wives, and they’ll share personal details without thinking twice. As a man, I don’t even like to hear that junk, so I walk away. If you don’t like conversations like that, walk away. But you don’t get to call the equal opportunity (EO) NCO every time you hear conversations that offend you. I work in my civilian job with a guy who was Infantry in Iraq and Afghanistan, has 3 purple hearts and a bronze star for valor. He always says, “If you find me offensive, you shouldn’t have found me!” Now that might be a bit extreme, but like it or not, that’s the consensus in combat arms units. If you don’t like it, don’t listen.

Now does that mean we should tolerate blatant sexual harassment in infantry and SOF units? Absolutely not! Women should never be groped, touched, fondled or otherwise assaulted…ever! But that being said, there will inevitably be times of close contact. And some of the contact will not be affectionate. In fact, there will be many occasions where life in general will be far from affectionate. When I received my Senior Parachutist wings, I was subjected to another aspect of initiation - my blood wings. Each senior or master rated jumper walked up, pulled out the wings the guy before them pounded in, and proceeded to pound my wings back into my chest. I ended up with fourteen holes embedded in my chest.

What if a woman was given her blood wings? These are the situations I fear that the gender card may be played. What’s going to happen when a young woman gets to her infantry, airborne, or ranger assignment, draws the ire of her boss, and gets smoked until her butt sucks buttermilk? Is she going to scream hazing or harassment? That cannot be tolerated.

Don’t crap where you eat. What I mean by that is, don’t date or sleep with anyone in your unit, EVER! The guys in an infantry unit are not sleeping together, but if they are, it’s only in the field and only to maintain body heat. It may be hard to resist temptation in these situations, but it’s completely necessary. These men are supposed to be your brothers, and we don’t date our brothers. If you want respect, reverence, and brother/sisterhood, don’t date a guy in your combat arms or SOF unit. Once you do and word gets out, they will never see you the same way again. I was in units with female officers during my career. We respected and revered them. Then one got busy messing around with enlisted men in the battalion. Her credibility as a leader was lost. From that moment on, she was a hot chick to be pursued; nothing more.

Is all this fair? No, this is not fair, but the concept of women in combat arms is brand new and compromises will have to be made. Regrettably, most of the compromises will need to be made by females themselves. Will the males need to adapt? Yes, but females must remember that they are joining a time-honored institution. And just like when you are a guest in someone’s house, you don’t go in making demands. Eventually, after a few years, it will be YOUR house. But for now, you may need to conform.

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Another Command Post from the opposite perspective: https://www.rallypoint.com/command-post/women-in-combat-women-of-power

Women in Combat, Women of Power | RallyPoint

Women are now allowed to join some combat MOS’s. I have heard the argument that this is a crazy idea and that it’s just not going to work - all the macho talk that says women are too weak, mentally and physically, to handle the high stress environment of a combat situation. Let’s not forget the all too familiar: “They are going to get someone killed. “ I feel as if to fully grasp and accept the decision, one has to dig deeper into the...

Response by 1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2016 11:51 AM

1stSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 11:51:29 -0400

Semper Fidelis, only time will tell. Will reason or politics rule the day?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2016 12:11 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 12:11:40 -0400

SSG Lon Watson GREAT post. Thanks for sharing your views. This will definitely be an interesting transition for the military.

Response by Col Joseph Lenertz made Apr 12 at 2016 12:36 PM

Col Joseph Lenertz — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 12:36:24 -0400

I hope it works out this way. I hope senior civilian DoD leadership does not force lowered standards down our throats. Every bit of training needs objective criteria for evaluation, or the subjective nature of it will allow "interpretations", whining, back-biting, and a career-long loss of respect for any who did not really meet the standards, but were allowed to pass anyway.

Response by LCpl Timothy McCain made Apr 12 at 2016 12:42 PM

LCpl Timothy McCain — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 12:42:14 -0400

I don't know. However I would like to talk about something else that has the ability to positively affect all veterans. That is the "American Heroes COLA Act of 2015" this bill will make the Cost of living adjustment automatic based upon the consumer price index increase. However it has been hard to get it passed because not enough veterans are paying attention and voicing their support for the bill. So you may be wondering how can you make a difference in passing the bill? Veterans are the most powerful voting block and when they come together in support of an issue the house and Senate listens. So what is the disposition of the bill? At the moment it sitting in the Veterans oversight committee in the Senate awaiting for them to take it up. So can you do? We every veteran to call, write, and email the members of the oversight committee. I've done it and have had great discussionofficeSenator Tillis about it. However it seems that more pressure is needed to get the committee chairs to bring the bill up for a vote that's why we need you to make your voices heard. Once we get it out of committee then what? While you contact the committee members we want you to contact your Senator office by calling, writing, and email to ask that they support the bill and they offer three amendments to the bill once it's brought to the floor. The first would give veterans a 25% pay increase unrelated to Cost of living. The second one would allow the VA to pay Quality Of life payments to veterans who are 60% or more disabled by using the secondary disability scale making awards proportional to the veterans disability rating. The final amendment would allow the VA to make maximum pension payments to any veteran that a service connected disability rating of 100% or permanent and total disabled that not receiving any military retirement. Back dated to the original award date of 100% for maximum of three years. After the bill passes the Senate is it over? No, it will go to the house for final approval. So what then? Each veteran would need to contact their Congressman ask them to support the bill and all its amendments. How long will it take to get to the President's desk? If we work together on this we can get their before the month end. Can any of the amendments take immediate effect after the President signs the bill into law? Yes, but you have to request they be written that way.

Response by CPT Pedro Meza made Apr 12 at 2016 1:10 PM

CPT Pedro Meza — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:10:43 -0400

It sad to see that for some one that claims to have worked with Special Operations that you resort to the lowest common denominator of separation, women need to be men. You failed to see that we have been fighting an enemy for which your Mentality has not worked, Women are a Weapons System against religious idiots that fear armed women, so apply the analogy of the M-4 that can not bust heads like and M-16 but both can kill. So lighten up think out side Mentality and kill religious idiots with a Weapon System that will do a better job then you.

Response by CPT Joseph K Murdock made Apr 12 at 2016 1:33 PM

CPT Joseph K Murdock — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:33:48 -0400

There are those who eschew the standards and wish them away in the name of expediency of equality.

Response by SGT James Hastings made Apr 12 at 2016 1:37 PM

SGT James Hastings — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 13:37:45 -0400

You said it straight!

Response by SSG Bethany Viglietta made Apr 12 at 2016 2:12 PM

SSG Bethany Viglietta — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 14:12:47 -0400

Excellent post! As a female who has spent time attached the Infantry and who conducted several missions with the SOF community I agree that we will need to adapt as well. Upon train up for my deployment I realized that being a female in this environment would require me to work harder than my peers. Walking into a room full of an Infantry Company's platoon and squad level leadership to introduce my collection team, I heard murmurs of what they were going to do with a female soldier. How would they be able to integrate her? etc. It took one conversation about what special qualities I possessed that the male soldiers could not in the environment that we were headed to, and a crude joke about my penis being on back order if they still weren't satisfied. That joke made it's way around the command and eventually got back to me by my BN CSM who asked if I received the packaged yet. He was an engineer and understood that I did what it took to build rapport with the infantry leadership and never questioned my tactic.

We deployed to Afghanistan and I made myself a vow to be stronger/faster than at least half of the guys there and never to be a hindrance on mission. The times I needed help would be because of my height, not my gender; consequently, the leadership sought me out each time they went on a foot patrol and the SOF team nearby would come "borrow" me for a few days from the infantry unit. They recognized what a female could bring to the table.

Response by LCpl Timothy McCain made Apr 12 at 2016 2:43 PM

LCpl Timothy McCain — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 14:43:06 -0400

Response by Capt Seid Waddell made Apr 12 at 2016 3:11 PM

Capt Seid Waddell — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 15:11:38 -0400

SSG Lon Watson, excellent post! Thank you.

Response by COL Jean (John) F. B. made Apr 12 at 2016 3:18 PM

COL Jean (John) F. B. — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 15:18:15 -0400

SSG Lon Watson Great post... It will remain to be seen if it actually works out this way.

I am betting that standards will be lowered to ensure "diversity" and that females are capable of being competitive for promotions, command, etc., at the same percentages as men, even if they may not measure up in the percentages that will be required to maintain that "equity" (just as many men do not measure up, as well, and fall by the wayside).

I have worked with a great many outstanding women in the Army and found them very capable in the tasks they were required or asked to perform, but, even then, there were some tasks they were not asked to do, strictly because of their sex and physical capabilities. That did not make them less important to the team as an individual, but di impact the overall ability of the team if what needed to be done could not because of a female on the team (and, again, the same can be said for an incapable male).

I have no issue with females being allowed to do anything they are capable of, as long as it does not impact mission accomplishment and readiness. The issue I have is the ability of females to choose what they want to be "equal" in and choose what they do not want to be equal in. To be fair, if they want to be equal, it should be across the board in every aspect. If not, I see no issue with not allowing them to do some things, such as serving in combat arms, etc.

Response by MSgt Rena Schmidt made Apr 12 at 2016 3:31 PM

MSgt Rena Schmidt — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 15:31:02 -0400

This is a total waste of Gov resources!

Response by MAJ Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2016 7:41 PM

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 19:41:28 -0400

No offense to our current infantry units, but I'd expect if we were to go test any of the unwritten physical standards you describe in your post, that we'd find a large minority or even a majority of currently serving infantrymen couldn't pass what you claim are unwritten standards. 5-7 perfect dead-hang pull-ups? Sorry, there's just no way this is a task many infantrymen can perform. 50 perfect push-ups---really? Again, there's just no way this is something a majority of infantrymen currently serving can do. Many people share your perspective that the infantry is full of hard-chargers who are super fit. There are folks like this in the infantry---but they are the exception, not the rule. I did notice you didn't identify any unwritten run standards---is cardio not important for the infantry?

I agree that we need to establish meaningful, measurable physical standards for each MOS. I disagree about your suggestion that these standards be normed for age but not gender---I don't think they should be normed at all---one standard! Realize, though, that this means that the fat, out-of-shape E-7s, E-8s, and E-9s and O-4s, O-5s, and O-6s will have to meet these standards, too (and I think many who find themselves calling for tough MOS standards might reconsider if they, too, had to meet said standards). I hope the Army identifies MOS standards, requires Soldiers to meet these standards to join an MOS, and certifies annually that all in an MOS can continue to meet said standard.

Response by Cpl Jeff N. made Apr 12 at 2016 9:41 PM

Cpl Jeff N. — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:41:07 -0400

The standards will be lowered. You might as well accept it now. There is really almost no other way to get women into and operating in a Range Bn, an Airborne infantry Unit, A Marine Rifle Platoon, A SEAL Team etc. That is the leftists and politically correct busy bodies goal. Their goal is not equality, it is preference, plain and simple.

Everyone demanding the same standards be upheld is doing so after watching standards being lowered decade after decade after decade. The destruction of the combat efficiency and effectiveness of the armed forces will then be complete.

As much as I agree with your post, the battle has been lost. The standards will be lowered and the military will be forced to accept it like many other policy decision of late that are not focused on the combat efficiency or effectiveness of combat units.

The Marine Corps published a recent and detailed study that demonstrated the issues clearly and it was summarily ignored. The political leaders have no interest in anything but a contrived equality.

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Apr 12 at 2016 9:43 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 21:43:49 -0400

As I have stated in other threads, the military is not the place for politically correct. No one can change my thinking on this. As far as women in combat arms. Those who've had the MOS know what it takes to make it, and we understand the standards. SSG Lon Watson, you point out a lot of things the combat arms guys already know, so I guess we'll just be watching and seeing how the cookie crumbles. The correct things to keep in mind - support the standards, support your team, work to the successful completion of the mission. I hope any female who elects to join combat arms does for the right reasons, not for glory or fame, not to be recognized, but to be a valued part of the team. I hope everyone read SSG Bethany Viglietta post and understand the value that can be contributed. Only time will tell - it's upon us so we got to deal with it. How we deal with it will determine if we are professional or not.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Apr 12 at 2016 10:11 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:11:09 -0400

I would have to agree with this assessment.
What is needed, across the board, is the exact same standard for combat units that we have upheld since inception. A pass is a pass and a fail is a fail. Across the board standards.

I used to be a damn good competitor. Passed on the male scale. Combatives, water survival, rucking. I had it. At 6ft, 180, I could slam it and throw males around like little dolls. Firefight? I got ya, Bro.

But...it broke me faster than my male counterparts. The aptitude of a woman is going to be the same. The general physical longitude is shorter. It just is. I didn't believe that once upon a time.

Place us as snipers, intel, QRF. We will never make it as long-term Spec OPs integrated for protracted combat.

Response by SGT Jerrold Pesz made Apr 12 at 2016 10:12 PM

SGT Jerrold Pesz — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:12:47 -0400

I think that we need to quit worring so much about PT scores, giving ourselves endless medals and social engineering. The sad truth is that we have the best equipment and the best training in the world and we haven't won a war in 70 years and are not likely to ever win one again. We have spent decades getting our asses kicked by third world illiterates with obsolete weapons and home made bombs riding in Toyotas. As long as our enemies are willing to do whatever it takes to win and we aren't we would be far better off to simply bring everybody home and quit getting people killed for nothing.

Response by MSgt Sandra McKinney Dent made Apr 12 at 2016 10:16 PM

MSgt Sandra McKinney Dent — Tue, 12 Apr 2016 22:16:42 -0400

I concur with your assessment and recommendations. Fair? War is not fair and only when we remember that our first duty is to be prepared to "Fly & Fight" as we say in the USAF; everything else is just marking time, and keeping the sharp pointy edge honed.

Response by CSM Darieus ZaGara made Apr 13 at 2016 6:01 AM

CSM Darieus ZaGara — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 06:01:48 -0400

There should be no accommodation, there are set standards and all should compete based on those standards!

Response by MSgt John McGowan made Apr 13 at 2016 7:16 AM

MSgt John McGowan — Wed, 13 Apr 2016 07:16:17 -0400

SSg This is a well written article that makes a ton of good points. I had one woman in a branch I ran and she didn't cut the program. I worked with a woman in a job after I got out that would match me step for step, weight for weight, you get the picture. I enjoyed working with her and in our job we got close, body to body at times. She has turned out to be one of my best friends. Some can do it but I think it'd rare. Again well written.

Response by COL David Turk made Apr 16 at 2016 5:35 PM

COL David Turk — Sat, 16 Apr 2016 17:35:54 -0400

Well thought out composition.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 20 at 2016 2:10 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 20 Jun 2016 02:10:50 -0400

Once the so-called combat exclusion rule was rescinded it was only logical to require women to sign up for the draft. There you go, as predicted in my original posting. For more double standards and how we will all be the worse for it, please reference, "Why should women be excluded from professional 'contact' sports and yet be considered for the profession of 'combat arms'.

Response by 1LT Peter Duston made Oct 5 at 2017 2:35 PM

1LT Peter Duston — Thu, 05 Oct 2017 14:35:05 -0400

How about accommodations for the males' of lessor intelligence or thoughtfulness who think that their decisions are "right" when a few more thoughts might come up with a better decision. I remember being a Program Manager for NCOIC training with mixed classes. Initially, the "guys" were all out in front and making "snap" decisions while the females held back a bit. After a few not so good decisions, the women stepped forward and by the end of the cycle, it was mostly women in charge. I know that this is anecdotal, but I chuckled as the smarter guys knew who to follow. The numb ones didn't get it and resorted to negative behavior towards not only the females but the smarter guys who followed the female leader. This was years ago as women were integrating into traditional male units. Give me a smart female leader anytime!!! I've got one deployed to Iraq - my daughter

Response by SSG Harry Outcalt made Jun 12 at 2018 12:34 AM

SSG Harry Outcalt — Tue, 12 Jun 2018 00:34:44 -0400

Ok, I'll keep this simple , it's a question of being trained to exceed the standards, those that can will make some of the boy's look bad while looking good doing it. A whole other side is earning the respect of your fellow Blue Cord wearer's to do that as a girl you gotta be better than the boy's accomplish that and you might be more valuable than the medic to the Infantry, congrats go out to the first generation girl's of the Blue Cord and earners of the Expert Infantryman's Badge. Congratulations Ladies exceeding the standards is what got you here maintaining a higher standard is what will keep you here....

Response by SPC Sheila Lewis made Jun 12 at 2018 8:17 AM

SPC Sheila Lewis — Tue, 12 Jun 2018 08:17:30 -0400

Informative post, SSG Lon Watson...take note, folks.

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Feb 9 at 2019 12:38 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Sat, 09 Feb 2019 00:38:24 -0500

Response by CW4 Craig Urban made Feb 9 at 2019 12:39 AM

CW4 Craig Urban — Sat, 09 Feb 2019 00:39:28 -0500

If they can eat snakes they can take care of everything