A "Veteran" after dropping out of boot camp? Where do you draw the line?

SrA Chris Adams — Thu, 05 Jun 2014 19:57:28 -0400

I feel that a woman I know (I will leave it at that for anonymity's sake) is claiming something and taking credit for something that she didn't earn. Personally, I am an honorably discharged disabled veteran, so I feel I have a legitimate gripe here. Anyway, this woman joined the Army a decade or so ago, and quit 2 weeks into boot camp because she couldn't hack it. She claims it was due to a sprained ankle. I know many soldiers that completed boot camp after healing up from a sprained ankle. Anyway, every time Veteran's Day, Memorial Day etc... rolls around she gladly accepts accolade's in person and all over social media and acts like she deserves the title veteran. I just can't get that taste out of my mouth that this creates. At what point can someone claim that title? I figured at the very minimum graduating basic training... any thoughts?

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2014 8:06 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 05 Jun 2014 20:06:38 -0400

In my opinion when I was deployed for the second time to Iraq from FT Hood My peers there already had at least two deployments and I just had one at the time. They told me you can't consider yourself a veteran until you have been to both type of combat zone. After my deployment survivor then I was able to consider myself a veteran.

Response by MSG Wade Huffman made Jun 5 at 2014 8:47 PM

MSG Wade Huffman — Thu, 05 Jun 2014 20:47:08 -0400

There was a different thread previously about veterans status that you may want to read through for some additional insight. The simple truth is there isn't a black and white line dividing who is and who isn't a veteran. I understand your angst, and I have felt the same way at times.

Here is a link to the thread I was referring to:

https://www.rallypoint.com/answers/should-veteran-status-be-reserved-for-those-who-have-deployed

Should veteran status be reserved for those who have deployed? | RallyPoint

This one has come up a lot in conversations with my peers and Soldiers: Should you be allowed to claim veterans status if you have never deployed? Personally, I'm an ROTC graduate who chose to go straight into the ARNG in 2011, knowing full well that my chances to deploy would be next to none with the changing op tempo. Realistically, had I been actively searching out a deployment the whole time, I still may not have gotten one. I'm sure there...

Response by LCpl Steve Wininger made Jun 5 at 2014 9:07 PM

LCpl Steve Wininger — Thu, 05 Jun 2014 21:07:01 -0400

I do not know if just showing up and leaving qualifies for veteran's status. Sounds like a union hall to me. I know in the Marines, you do not receive the title of Marine until you complete boot camp. As for veterans status, I do not know.

Response by SSG Trevor S. made Jun 5 at 2014 10:59 PM

SSG Trevor S. — Thu, 05 Jun 2014 22:59:23 -0400

If she claims anything other than getting booted from basic report her to Stolen Valor. If she tells the truth and still is the talk of the town, then there isn't much to do aside from eat popcorn and watch the show.

Response by Cpl Victor B Johnson made Jun 6 at 2014 12:44 AM

Cpl Victor B Johnson — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 00:44:18 -0400

For purpose of receiving healthcare benefits from the Dept of Veteran Affairs, the individual had to have been on active duty for 24 months. This minimum duty requirement may not apply to all Veterans. The exception being those who were discharged for a disability incurred or aggravated in the line of duty, for a hardship, “early out,” OR those who served prior to September 7, 1980.

With that said, some people have legitimate injuries and achieve the "veteran" status. I have seen people completely disregard their injuries and push through just to finish basic training or MOS school. Those are the people who have earned their title and obtain my respect as a Veteran.

Response by SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2014 9:01 AM

SGT(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 09:01:36 -0400

Looking at 38 U.S.C. Sec 101 paragraphs 2 and 24 I would say she is not a veteran.

(2) The term “veteran” means a person who served in the active military, naval, or air service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable.

(24) The term “active military, naval, or air service” includes—
(A) active duty;
(B) any period of active duty for training during which the individual concerned was disabled or died from a disease or injury incurred or aggravated in line of duty; and
(C) any period of inactive duty training during which the individual concerned was disabled or died—
(i) from an injury incurred or aggravated in line of duty; or
(ii) from an acute myocardial infarction, a cardiac arrest, or a cerebrovascular accident occurring during such training.

It doesn't appear that she falls into any of those categories, so legally I would say she isn't.

Response by MSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2014 7:05 PM

MSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 19:05:48 -0400

No veteran there. For some reason the rule of thumb I've had in my head is a minimum 180 days active duty.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2014 11:31 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 06 Jun 2014 23:31:41 -0400

I got a chuckle from this one. As a detailed recruiter, I have heard some of the craziest stories for why people didn't complete training. But in my opinion, someone who doesn't complete BCT AND AIT is most definitely, not a veteran. And for them to even pretend that they are is very sad on their part. Call her out!

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2014 12:15 AM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 00:15:12 -0400

If she was a drop out while in basic training, she still got a DD 214. She is required to put that down on any job application as being a former member of the armed forces by law. That law dictates that veteran status must be reported by applicants and hiring businesses. If the law states, "anyone with a DD 214" and reference for the status of veteran hires, it would lead me to believe that the federal government considers her a veteran. We don't have to like it or agree but, it is what it is.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2014 12:48 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 12:48:47 -0400

They are not a veteran. If it came down to a sprained ankle, she could have waited until she healed and started Boot Camp over again. In the Air Force, if you are hurt, you are put in a holding squadron until you heal and then put back into a squadron where you left off at (if you got hurt in week 5, then you would go back to week 5 and continue). I would imagine there are different rules and standards for each branch about this. Not finishing Boot Camp/Basic then you are not a veteran, and haven't earned the title.

Response by CSM Michael J. Uhlig made Jun 7 at 2014 1:04 PM

CSM Michael J. Uhlig — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 13:04:02 -0400

Chris, 2 weeks and a sprained ankle put her out of boot camp?.....I guess that bum ankle healed well enough for her to jump for recognition........c'mon!

reminds me of some stolen valor pukes out there.......they will never fully understand the quote "For those who have fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know"

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 7 at 2014 1:49 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 07 Jun 2014 13:49:06 -0400

Just another example of the "entitlement" generation. People "working" the system to get benefits they do not deserve. Before too long, all of the available benefits will all be spent up. Leaving nothing for those of us who actually did something to EARN that entitlement.
At what time should someone "claim" a title. I dont think I know the answer to your question. I guess one answer would be...when their peers acknowledge it!

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Jun 8 at 2014 8:03 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Sun, 08 Jun 2014 20:03:28 -0400

SrA Adams, Great discussion point. Now here are a few things we have to answer. When did she go into boot camp? Prior to September 8, 1980, there was no minimum length of service necessary to be considered a veteran for most VA benefits. Yes, really that is right out of the VA Manual. So it is possible that as far as the VA is concerned she MAY be a veteran.

And yes she will have a DD-214, everyone who enters the military gets one at Discharge. IF she did not receive a Dishonorable she may be eligible for VA benefits.

I have included a link to the Congressional Research Service talks about "Who is a Veteran" so anyone can look up this "stuff" since I found it hard to believe too. Most of it does depend on her "service" dates and when she entered.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42324.pdf

Response by LCpl Matt P. made Jun 9 at 2014 4:57 PM

LCpl Matt P. — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 16:57:55 -0400

She is a wannabe, a poser...IE a FAKE! I dont know about the Army but in the Marine Corps (Parris Island 1980) we were always referred to as "recruit" (and multiple other less than complimentary names)we were NEVER called "Marine"...the first time I was called Marine was by my Drill Instructor (I STILL hate that man) AFTER I graduated.
Like I said, in the Marines, you arent a Marine until you go thru graduation at the end of training!

Response by CPT Jacob Swartout made Jun 9 at 2014 10:26 PM

CPT Jacob Swartout — Mon, 09 Jun 2014 22:26:13 -0400

I have trainees who have to get recycled for injuries because they cannot go any further until they are 100% healed. Yes it is a set back depending how far they must go back to the next unit to continue where they missed training. Once healed, they can resume their training and graduate. She could have done the same as far as I'm concerned. A sprained ankle after two weeks and quitting, there has to be more to this that she knows. I don't know how the veteran status works but if she has a DD 214 then she is by some means. You may not agree and despite how long she was in the Army the status will identify her as a veteran. I myself wouldn't go around accepting praise for being in for only 2 weeks and then quitting.

Response by MSG(P) Michael Warrick made Jun 10 at 2014 7:51 AM

MSG(P) Michael Warrick — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 07:51:56 -0400

I do not know if just showing up and leaving qualifies for veteran's status. Sounds like a union hall to me.

Response by SGT Craig Northacker made Jun 10 at 2014 11:33 AM

SGT Craig Northacker — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 11:33:28 -0400

If she is claiming any kind of medals, the stolen valor laws can be brought to bear.

Response by MAJ Jim Woods made Jun 10 at 2014 1:20 PM

MAJ Jim Woods — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 13:20:25 -0400

SrA Adams,

If she was Medically Discharged she is a Veteran. If she quit her contract, she gets no Veterans Benefits thus she is NOT a Veteran. I would ask to see her DD-214. If she won't produce it to prove her discharge status........ Call BS on her and let her know that if she continues you will "out" her.

Response by SGT Ben Keen made Jun 10 at 2014 3:03 PM

SGT Ben Keen — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 15:03:02 -0400

I believe we had a similar discussion on here before but since I can't find, I'll give my two cents.

Personally, I don't think any of us earned the title of Veteran until we successfully completed basic and advance training. Signing up to leave is one thing, leaving and being successful; working through all the sweat, pain, tears, and blood and never giving up is another. Personally, I agree, she is faking the funk here. Sure she signed up and shipped out but was only gone for 2 weeks?!?! That doesn't make you any closer to be being a Veteran than the guys that play Modern Warfare on Xbox and/or PlayStation all day.

Response by CMSgt James Nolan made Jun 10 at 2014 7:57 PM

CMSgt James Nolan — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 19:57:21 -0400

SrA Adams, thank you for your service.

I will say this about the "sprained ankle".

In boot camp, way back in '85, we were in our two weeks at the rifle range. It was Pre-Qual day (the day before Qual day) and we had 3 privates go UNQ. Typically, this time is relatively calm during boot camp because the DI's really want the privates to pick up on this skill. But with 3 UNQs, the DI's went ballistic. We were at the barracks, getting smoked and doing the "get upstairs/get downstairs, get out the front hatch, get out the back hatch" drills. During all the trampling, my ankle got run over at my footlocker that we were "emptying into seabags". Ankle was terribly sprained. Required trip to medical, and a return to the unit on crutches with an air cast. The Heavy DI SSgt (name omitted to protect the innocent) asked what the Doc had said, to which I replied "Sir, the Private reports that the Doc said he could qualify, Sir" He cocked his head and smirked and told me that I was not allowed to march in his formation, that I had to keep up and had better F#*KING qualify. The next morning we marched to the range, with me hopping my ass off to keep up with the PLT stepping out. I get to the line and the CWO running the range asked me what the F#*K I was doing on his range, so I told him the same thing. I dropped the crutches and qualified. It was hard as hell, and hurt like the devil, but...I WAS NOT GETTING WASHED BACK, PERIOD. Qualified, hopped my butt back to barracks behind the PLT.

Following quals, we went to the field and were humping packs up and down the road/hills and Mount MotherF#&ker. I hurt, but was keeping up, minus the crutches and air cast that I had quietly discarded. It hurt like hell, but quitting was not an option.

29 years later, still serving.

If you do not finish training because you quit, you are not a veteran. If you get discharged during training because you got hurt to the point of no recovery, I will stand behind you, because sometimes things happen-which is the unfortunate side effect of Hard Training. Sadly there are plenty of potentially outstanding troops that are badly injured and cannot recover.

Nobody told us it would be easy, in fact they told us and proved to us that some would not make it.

As a side note, if you serve honorably in any capacity, you are "my brother/sister in arms". If you choose to be a dirtbag and bring discredit to my military-you have earned the right to forgo such title.

End of rant.

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2014 9:55 PM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 10 Jun 2014 21:55:33 -0400

I thought you had to be honorably discharged to be considered a veteran.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2014 11:46 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:46:22 -0400

A civilian becomes a Veteran if he or she has served. One can not serve if they don't finish Boot Camp or other services introduction schools. I tend to agree that you must complete your first enlistment in order to earn Veteran status. However, those wounded or disabled in their first enlistment should receive that title as well.

Response by LTC Paul Labrador made Jun 11 at 2014 11:50 AM

LTC Paul Labrador — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 11:50:38 -0400

IMHO you're not a "Veteran" until you've completed your IET and have been discharged from active duty under honorable conditions upon completing your tour of duty (whether it be ETS, Medical retirement, etc). She didn't complete her IET, so in my opinion, she never got past the "candidate" stage.

Now here's a question: if she got any lump sum bonuses for enlisting, are those paid upon completing IET or at the time she signed the dotted line? If it was paid up front, would she have to pay that bonus back because she essentially failed to live up to the conditions of the enlistment contract?

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2014 12:48 PM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 12:48:40 -0400

By statute, a “veteran” is defined as a “person who served in the active military, naval, or air service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable.” -Title 38 U.S.C. § 101(2); 38 C.F.R. § 3.1(d). Although I wouldn't do the same if I were in her position, it appears she hasn't done anything wrong unless she has intentionally misrepresented the quality or quantity of her service.

Response by SSG Ian Martin made Jun 11 at 2014 3:13 PM

SSG Ian Martin — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 15:13:38 -0400

Definitely not a veteran.

Merriam-Webster defines a veteran as:

vet·er·an noun \ˈve-tə-rən, ˈve-trən\
: someone who fought in a war as a soldier, sailor, etc.

: someone who has a lot of experience in a particular activity, job, etc.

She has done neither of these things. 2 weeks is not a long time, and did not fight in any war. You have a legitimate gripe, and I would put her on check. I'd put her in check. She is stealing the honor of being a veteran and exposing her integrity to scrutiny.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2014 9:34 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 21:34:20 -0400

I don't tell people I used to be a Pararescueman. I quit after 4 weeks, I did not complete any part of the course.
To say I was a member of that elite group of warriors is to spit on the faces of those who were dedicated to the training, and subsequently the missions they completed.
No your friend is not a veteran, nor was she ever a soldier.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2014 10:20 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 22:20:37 -0400

If you serve even one day on active duty you receive a DD214. The DD214 reflects the type of discharge you receive whether honorable or dishonorable, etc. It also has an RE- code which is your re-entry code and that determines if you can re-enter service or if you have to have a waiver to re-enter or cannot re-enter, etc. I know this for a fact because my initial enlistment I was discharged during basic training due to a medical issue and I received a DD214. My RE code required a me to get a waiver to re-enter the military which after a 10 year break in service and the medical issue corrected I received a waiver to re-enter service and my prior service time that I had from my initial basic training counts towards my service time. During my 10 year break in service I still was considered a Veteran and I still considered myself a Veteran. Had I done something illegal and been dishonorably discharged that would be a different story but one should never discount another's honorable service even for a short amount of time. By statute, a “veteran” is defined as a “person who served in the active military, naval, or air service, and who was discharged or released therefrom under conditions other than dishonorable.” I don't agree with people taking credit for service they didn't do or bragging about things she hasn't done and there may be more to her discharge that she chooses not to share but if she served honorably she is entitled to be considered a Veteran. Judging by some of the comments I've read there are a lot of egos and people need to get over themselves and embrace anyone that has served honorably as their brothers and sisters and stop being so judgmental about how long they have served.

Response by CSM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 11 at 2014 10:57 PM

CSM Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 11 Jun 2014 22:57:12 -0400

Minimum Duty Requirements

Most Veterans who enlisted after September 7, 1980, or entered active duty after October 16, 1981, must have served 24 continuous months or the full period for which they were called to active duty in order to be eligible.

Response by SGT Robert Hawks made Jun 12 at 2014 8:31 AM

SGT Robert Hawks — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 08:31:43 -0400

I understand your feeling I agree with you however I do know one young man who fell of an obstacle during basic and is paralyzed from the waist down he didn't finish basic but was medically retired and drawing pay for the rest of his life. I am positive if this accident had not occurred he would have finished and served honorably. So I would say it depends on circumstances.

Response by SFC Stephen Carden made Jun 12 at 2014 2:56 PM

SFC Stephen Carden — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 14:56:17 -0400

The only thing this person is a veteran of is Reception Battalion. She is spitting in the face of my father and grandfather, who both fought and bled for their country, by calling herself a veteran. Maybe you need to counsel her a little bit SrA Adams. At the very least, call her out on it.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 12 at 2014 5:40 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 17:40:38 -0400

She's NOT a veteran... PERIOD!

That's like saying my ex-roommate ( a fat ass paintballer and W.O.W. 'Hero') who loves to dress up and play army rangers...is a Veteran! NOT!!!!

He is my ex roommate, because he is a poser and a whimp, that nearly got his ass beaten by myself and other real veterans. The closest he came to joining the Army or any branch was to hangout POSING in the near from real Recruiters in the mall. They too nearly killed him!

At lead she did two weeks, but she is NOT a veteran and is NOT entitled to benefits thereof or there within! She, like he...will be a a Veteran when.... (See below)!

Response by 1SG Jeremy Parkin made Jun 12 at 2014 6:43 PM

1SG Jeremy Parkin — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 18:43:05 -0400

We are the real 1% and there will always be someone that will want to be but couldn't be or won't be. It's not right but we all know who we are.

Response by MSG Brad Sand made Jun 12 at 2014 6:50 PM

MSG Brad Sand — Thu, 12 Jun 2014 18:50:37 -0400

If you have a bad taste in your mouth, I would recommend a nice adult beverage. If the taste is still there have a second. Any more than two, I would additionally recommend a D.D. or you to the work on your taste buds close enough to walk home?

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 13 at 2014 11:14 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 13 Jun 2014 23:14:50 -0400

I like a comment I read from MSG, VA states 24 months continuous service for qualification. I do believe some people go through bootcamp or are in less than that timeframe and should still qualify. By stating the oath and committing to the country in a service is a form of veteran as a patriot. This is a fine line as I had a recruit cuss out a Company Commander and quit week 1... Veteran in my eye no. So its a tough balance. But a veteran does not parade the fact they served or serve; or at least I haven't met one.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 17 at 2014 7:34 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Jun 2014 07:34:05 -0400

I will be honest with my opinion, regardless of who gets offended or upset about it.

Each case is unique in its own way. Generically speaking, one shouldn't call themselves a Veteran unless they have served in combat or accomplished something that amounts to great significance.. I don't care if you've been in the service for more than 10 years, if you have skated around combat deployments, or avoided leaving the country, for whatever reason, you are NOT a veteran.

And I personally like the quote that I'm sure most of you have read:

"A veteran is someone who, at one point in his/her life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America," for an amount of "up to and including my life." "

Response by SGT Chris Langmeyer made Jun 18 at 2014 11:51 AM

SGT Chris Langmeyer — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 11:51:34 -0400

I couldn't agree more. Finishing training at a minimum. Deployments make you a "combat" veteran so I don't think they are necessary, though I have been deployed myself.

Response by SSG William Patton made Jun 18 at 2014 11:52 AM

SSG William Patton — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 11:52:18 -0400

I must agree that she is not a veteran because she failed to complete the requirements to even be considered a soldier. If you cannot hack basic training then you have not earned the right to be a soldier and thus have not earned the right to be called a veteran. I do not know what the discharge levels are anymore, but I would hope there is an administrative discharge to cover situations like hers so she does not receive an honorable discharge and thus lessen the sacrifice those of us who served our tours have earned. If it were someone I knew, I would call them out on it. I have a brother in law who calls himself a Vietnam veteran, but only flew in to Ton Say Nut during the fall to pick up refugees. He never even set foot on the tarmac. When he calls himself a Vietnam veteran, I call him out on it. He has stopped doing it if I am around because he knows I wlll embarass him. Do not soil the names of those who served honorably by stating you accomplished that which you did not.

Response by SSG Raymond Andrews made Jun 18 at 2014 9:13 PM

SSG Raymond Andrews — Wed, 18 Jun 2014 21:13:03 -0400

My wife and I are both vets. I retired after 21 years and my wife served 12. Her little brother joined the Army in my field (68P). He got into trouble the first time and I spoke up for him. After that, I washed my hands of him. He was booted two weeks before he completed Phase II of his AIT. He made the mistakes once of calling himself a veteran in my presence. I don't think he will EVER make that mistake again.

Response by SSgt David OGrady made Jun 19 at 2014 10:44 AM

SSgt David OGrady — Thu, 19 Jun 2014 10:44:07 -0400

SrA Adams,

Thank you for your service. As a honorably discharged disabled veteran, I agree with you. I know someone who made it to the end of basic training and then had a medical issue. She was discharged without completing basic. She also runs around claiming to be a veteran and getting the accolades. It really makes me sick.

Response by SSgt Todd Jansen made Jun 26 at 2014 10:00 AM

SSgt Todd Jansen — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 10:00:22 -0400

No she is not a Veteran

Response by SSgt Todd Jansen made Jun 26 at 2014 10:00 AM

SSgt Todd Jansen — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 10:00:58 -0400

No she is not a veteran but a coward

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 26 at 2014 11:53 AM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 26 Jun 2014 11:53:48 -0400

In my personal opinion, you are not a "veteran" until you have served in a time of war. I do not mean that you have necessarily been on deployment, but you have at least volunteered your time to this great Country during a time that doing so was a true risk of your life. I am new to the military. I've completed BCT and am currently in IET status. Some thank me for my "service," but as far as I am concerned I've done nothing yet. I personally do not and will not consider myself a veteran until I have risked as much as my battles. As for the aforementioned woman, I applaud her efforts and am grateful for her willingness to try. However, if you can't even complete training, I don't think you are a veteran.

Response by PFC Zanie Young made Aug 6 at 2014 9:38 AM

PFC Zanie Young — Wed, 06 Aug 2014 09:38:12 -0400

It's a shame, really... How can this woman call herself a "veteran" if she can't cut the muster in basic training? I served less than 2 years, honorably discharged, and earned a NDSM while I served, and this wannabe calls herself a veteran? I have "processed out" people in AIT, with a torn calf muscle, at that! ANYONE who quits while in training DOES NOT deserve the "veteran" title!

Response by SSgt Robert Clark made Aug 6 at 2014 10:42 AM

SSgt Robert Clark — Wed, 06 Aug 2014 10:42:05 -0400

She dropped BMT after 2 weeks due to a sprained ankle, and she calls herself a veteran...shes a hack. I don't know ANY real veterans who get all excited and expect people to give accolade's on veteran centric days. I get embarrassed whenever people just simply say thank you for your service.
When I was in BMT I developed shin splints and did my required run, every day, under required time. I was in excruciating pain, but I kept my mouth shut and did what I had to, and didn't even think about telling the TI(DI), I didn't want to get washed back or out.

Response by SPC Paul Prevost made Aug 10 at 2014 3:53 PM

SPC Paul Prevost — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 15:53:46 -0400

I sprained my ankle in basic and kept training, I pulled the muscles on the inside of my rib cage and kept training. Many of my company in basic got hurt, sprains, pains, broke ribs, nobody quit except the wussies. My Drill's kept them all there until the day we graduated and then washed them out as training failures. May oldest brother washed out of basic and we don't consider him a veteran. If you do not finish boot camp, you are just a trainee, not yet a soldier.

Response by PO3 Keith Pugh made Aug 10 at 2014 4:56 PM

PO3 Keith Pugh — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 16:56:33 -0400

Hands down, she doesn't qualify to be considered a U.S. military Vet

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Aug 10 at 2014 6:49 PM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 18:49:54 -0400

A few thoughts.

1. While I cannot speak for the other branches, the Marine Corps specifically does not give you "The Title Of Marine" until you graduate Boot Camp. This is also why they refer to you as Recruits, and not Privates, because a Private is an actual rank, and to have rank at all, you must have Earned The Title.

2. Unfortunately, the currently existing version of what was originally the Stolen Valor Act, now says that anyone can SAY, and WEAR, whatever they like about themselves so long as they are not in any way financially gaining by the action. This is obviously something most Veterans disagree with, but the Supreme Court ruled that Freedom of Speech includes Freedom to Lie apparently.

3. That said, there have been tons of "people faking it" all over the Web, and usually to any real service member or veteran, they look very visually incorrect. Which means these people are not only faking it for whatever screwy reasons they have, but they are clearly stupid enough to not think about looking up how a uniform should be properly worn, how a ribbon or medal display should be built, etc, and quite frankly I find that this is evidence enough they wouldn't have an IQ worthy of military entrance.

4. The most common case is where people try to pull off the "I'm a career military person" when they attend their high school reunions. And most of these people tend to use Marine Corps Dress Blues that they quite obviously cant even fit their fat ass or gut into.

5. There are in fact some rules and regulations regarding the when/where a veteran---a real veteran---can wear certain uniforms. Usually it involves some event where such pride/prestige is relevant, or worn in honor of a related event. The fakers tend to ignore these things as well.

Signed --- a Former Marine Infantryman.

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 7:07 PM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 19:07:51 -0400

She isn't worthy of a title of veteran. Heck, she ain't even worthy of being called a BOOT! And according to your description, she's borderline close to stolen valor! Not that it's no longer illegal to claim. Disgraceful

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 10 at 2014 8:40 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 20:40:22 -0400

Well, I almost got my commission, so by that reasoning, I can conclude I am an Officer?
Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Remember that old saying?

Sure, many enlistees hurt themselves during Basic. Some drop out and others who really want to complete it can't because of injury or administrative issues. It's sad and I really hate hearing those stories...but many times in life, we simply don't make our goals. I disagree that a Basic Training wash-out should feel entitled to claim the same status as folks who were fortunate enough to run that gamut and legitimately earn their Veteran status.

And this woman's story really made me angry :(

Response by PO3 Nicholas Moltet made Aug 10 at 2014 9:05 PM

PO3 Nicholas Moltet — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:05:41 -0400

I am currently going to school with someone that made it through basic and was kicked out after because, in his own words, "I thought I could do anything I wanted to." Any time a teacher asks who is a veteran he responds. Anytime the VA rep comes into class he wants to talk to them. Even though he doesn't get any benefits and has no reason to talk to them. I spent 7 years in, and when ever he claims to be a Vet I just want to smack him. That's my thoughts on this issue

Response by SFC Michael Hartwig made Aug 10 at 2014 9:23 PM

SFC Michael Hartwig — Sun, 10 Aug 2014 21:23:39 -0400

I completed BT with a broken toe so she doesn't have a leg to stand on (pun intended)

No she doesn't have the right to receive accolades or praise. You have to complete BT to even be called a Soldier.

Response by SSgt Jenna Welch made Aug 13 at 2014 3:12 PM

SSgt Jenna Welch — Wed, 13 Aug 2014 15:12:52 -0400

Here's my two cents as a female veteran, who served honorably for 11 years.....I call shenanigans. Even in BMT in the AF you are not called Airman until graduation, you are "kindly" referred to as "Trainee". Plus, had she been injured as such requiring medical release, she would have been transferred to a medical hold training flight and been held until MEB'd. A process longer than two weeks. Most individuals who fall out in week two, do so by claiming that the stress of training is too much and they, what I refer to as, "psych out". I am fairly certain I got a small tear in my Achilles heel in BMT and my shit swelled up like a fat tick. I was damned determined to not get washed back. My TI snuck me a soft ankle brace that I wore in boots only and I pushed through the pain. I not only graduated, but made it my bitch and graduated with top honors. So, the long short of it is, no. Said individual in question not a veteran, IMHO. She's, unfortunately, a member of a large growing list of posers. Twisted ankle? Smh. Sounds like half the whiners that clog up my ER.

Response by PO3 Rachel Christensen made Aug 20 at 2014 6:54 PM

PO3 Rachel Christensen — Wed, 20 Aug 2014 18:54:53 -0400

I was under the impression that you are not a veteran unless you have at least 6 months in. I did my 4 years (just didn't re-enlist) and some people still don't consider me a vet, maybe because it was the coast guard I never deployed overseas? But I think they're thinking of VFW membership eligibility, if which I'm not. ANYWAY, I believe, in order to be eligible for veterans benefits you have to have been in for at least 6 months with an honorable discharge. I have a nephew in that group, who got out during tech school, but receives some veterans benefits. I kind of have a problem with that.

Response by Cpl Christopher Bishop made Aug 22 at 2014 7:43 PM

Cpl Christopher Bishop — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 19:43:54 -0400

UPDATE: Ok I've seen some of the posts on this thread ... My question is are we informed about the differences (as any may exist) between

What does the VA use to determine elligibility?
and
What harder rule-set (UCMJ?) is used as what the VA is supposed to be following?

I'm sure its not the VA who "makes the rule" here. They have to follow something. Where is this source? And are we all remembering this as we reply here? (it seemed to me some are not)

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 22 at 2014 8:04 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 22 Aug 2014 20:04:38 -0400

Washing out on a horse shit injury does not a veteran make.

Response by LCpl John Ketterer made Aug 29 at 2014 4:13 AM

LCpl John Ketterer — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 04:13:46 -0400

I know in the Corps you are not a Marine UNTIL you graduate boot camp. It's not like high school where you can go back and get a GED. So NO. She is NOT a vet nor did she earn the title.

Response by SPC(P) Cody Patterson made Aug 29 at 2014 7:23 PM

SPC(P) Cody Patterson — Fri, 29 Aug 2014 19:23:27 -0400

Wow. I remember I fell down two flights of stairs the 3rd week of basic. My knee swelled up and I couldn't bend my leg whatsoever. We had the obstacle course the next day and I'm glad to say I made it. I came in last and was wobbling at a fast pace, but I didn't stop. Fast-forward to my unit and I broke my ankle during a run, still finished the last 2 miles without stopping. Still here and hopefully done getting injured!

Response by CW5 Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2014 1:48 PM

CW5 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Oct 2014 13:48:08 -0400

SrA Chris Adams, I'm with you -- Your scenario leaves a bad taste in my mouth as well. I don't know where one should draw the line, or if there is an official answer to that question, but I would say you're a veteran if you complete a term of service and ETS. In the past that could have been anywhere from two to six years.

For what it's worth, I know a woman who did something similar to the woman you describe. She joined the Navy, didn't make it through Basic, stuck around for about six months (probably being recycled and waiting to heal from injuries), and then she was discharged. After that she went to the VA and got 20% disability, which offended me. It's certainly none of my business, but I still think it stinks.

Response by CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Oct 8 at 2014 2:53 PM

CMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 08 Oct 2014 14:53:39 -0400

Veteran? No way. She scarcely even grazed the tread on her new combat boots.

She does not, in my opinion, stand in the same coveted circle as my brothers- and sisters-in-arms.

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Oct 8 at 2014 10:20 PM

SPC James Mcneil — Wed, 08 Oct 2014 22:20:17 -0400

To me in order to earn the title of veteran, you should first earn the title of service member. A basic trainee is just that, a trainee. Does she deserve credit for giving it the "ole college try" so to speak? I suppose. But IMHO she is not a veteran.

Response by SSG Michael Hathaway made Oct 10 at 2014 4:08 PM

SSG Michael Hathaway — Fri, 10 Oct 2014 16:08:02 -0400

If one doesn't graduate basic training, then one hasn't performed all the qualification steps to be called a 'soldier' thus how could they be considered a veteran. I have my personal beliefs of the term veteran, but at the very least it should be reserved for those that completed basic.

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Oct 11 at 2014 12:14 AM

SFC Mark Merino — Sat, 11 Oct 2014 00:14:24 -0400

6 months minimum, right?

Response by SGT Steve Oakes made Oct 11 at 2014 12:15 PM

SGT Steve Oakes — Sat, 11 Oct 2014 12:15:31 -0400

I am with you. Dropping out for a sprain? I think it comes down to the effort put in. I have a cousin that did not make it through basic, that I still consider a Veteran. He did not give up. He was unable to meet the physical requirements, he could not pass the push ups on the PT test. He went though two rounds of extra training and improved both times but was unable to make it. I think anyone willing to go through an extra four weeks of basic voluntarily deserves to be called a Veteran. He is also up front about it though. He will not put himself out there as a Veteran. Of course none of that makes him a Veteran by the legal definition.

Response by SrA Edward Rodriguez made Jul 4 at 2015 10:27 PM

SrA Edward Rodriguez — Sat, 04 Jul 2015 22:27:18 -0400

By Florida Law to be considered for Veteran entitlement one needs to complete more than 180 days of Military Service which does not including Tech, AIT or any other school to be considered a Veteran. That is the black and white law for those who want the glory but couldn't earn it themselves. Many are chosen but few march to the end...

Response by TSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2015 10:59 PM

TSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 04 Jul 2015 22:59:21 -0400

General rule of thumb is 181 days. Usually at the completion of training (to include technical training).

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 6:44 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 18:44:59 -0400

If they wrote a blank check to Uncle Sam, took the oath and joined the military especially during a time of war... yes, I think that makes them a veteran. I don't think they should refer to themselves as a soldier, marine or airman until they have at least made it through boot camp.

Response by SSgt Alex Robinson made Aug 6 at 2015 6:49 PM

SSgt Alex Robinson — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 18:49:32 -0400

No. They are not. Plain and simple.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 6 at 2015 6:51 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 18:51:39 -0400

Not in my book. Boot camp is a certifying event stating the trooper is qualified as such.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 6:51 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 18:51:51 -0400

In my opinion, no.

Response by CPO Joseph Grant made Aug 6 at 2015 6:53 PM

CPO Joseph Grant — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 18:53:13 -0400

Nope. 180 days, after that they are.

Response by SPC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 7:03 PM

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 19:03:19 -0400

Are you fucking kidding me?
If a student attends high school, but fails to meet the requirements for graduation, do they deserve a diploma?

HELL NO!

Response by SGT Jeremiah B. made Aug 6 at 2015 7:11 PM

SGT Jeremiah B. — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 19:11:28 -0400

I think it really depends on WHY they didn't finish. If it was not their fault, I think they should receive the benefits of someone that was injured out of the military. e.g. I think they should be considered a veteran from a legal standpoint. However, if they washed out, hell no.

And even if they injured out, they can be proud of their attempt, but I wouldn't personally consider them a "veteran" because they never earned the title soldier, sailor, airman or marine.

Response by SGT Forrest Stewart made Aug 6 at 2015 7:13 PM

SGT Forrest Stewart — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 19:13:23 -0400

Not at all. If the individual fails to complete basic training, that individual is considered to be a washout.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 7:13 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 19:13:35 -0400

When I was a Marine recruiter that was a discharge either in the Delayed Entry Program (DEP) or at boot camp. If that individual did not complete boot camp or did not ship out to San Diego or Parris Island then the recruiter will take the hit on his production numbers for the month forcing the recruiter to find another qualified applicant to make up for that loss. Now I was told of some situations where the applicant was injured in boot camp and it was found service related and the service took care of them medically. If they are considered a veteran under a VA policy I am not sure brother.

Response by MSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 7:49 PM

MSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 19:49:44 -0400

hell no! would you let a med school dropout operate on you? if your accountant still counts on his fingers and toes do you want him to do your taxes?

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Aug 6 at 2015 8:21 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 20:21:53 -0400

Barring a serious service related injury at boot camp, how can one not pass basic training and not be considered a SM yet be considered a veteran? In general anything done in a training status doesn't count towards any award, in-country service, etc.

Response by LCDR Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2015 8:52 PM

LCDR Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 06 Aug 2015 20:52:43 -0400

Hmm. That is a really interesting question. I think a whole lot of folks would say no, but to a certain extent I almost think yes.

It would probably depend a whole lot on what happened.

As an aside, consider this: I enlisted Marine Corps Infantry. I was accepted to the Naval Academy and was released from my obligation. I never showed up to boot camp because I was at the academy. Granted I never set foot there so there's no doubt that I am not a Marine, but I do tell people I enlisted (very careful to make sure they know the whole story though) at times when it comes up. Obviously not the same, but something to consider. The reason the person didn't finish may have an impact.

If someone was permanently disabled in bootcamp I would be really hard pressed not to call them a Veteran. On the same token, if they were processed out for discipline issues or couldn't perform at all, I would be less inclined to consider them a veteran.

Response by Sgt Sharon Allen made Aug 7 at 2015 12:55 AM

Sgt Sharon Allen — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 00:55:26 -0400

I would say no. Do you have a degree if you almost have one but are one course short? No. You either graduate or don't. Is someone who volunteers at a soup kitchen once a volunteer? Is someone who goes to church for a few months a Christian? Do the ascribe to the Christian principles?
People who earn titles like Marine, Ranger, Saper tabs, SF, etc. get pretty upset when someone fakes their tabs or make a false claim. Would someone who has a dishonorable discharge be considered a veteran? I suppose it would consider the circumstances as why they received the discharge.

Response by SFC Kenneth Robinson made Aug 7 at 2015 1:01 AM

SFC Kenneth Robinson — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 01:01:30 -0400

This is a very controversial question however talking to the VA, they consider you a veteran if you have served 1 day on Active Duty during a time of war as long as your DD214 says anything other than dishonerable. I even seen a Soldier in the National Guard who started attending drills before they went to basic training and was injured in a car accident on their way home from drill get medically retired because the accident left them in a wheelchair. In that case, the VA said the Soldier was a veteran and they never attended basic training.

Response by LtCol Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2015 9:43 AM

LtCol Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 09:43:48 -0400

Would you consider a person a Marine if he dropped out of boot camp? I certainly know the answer to that.

Response by PO1 Mike Edgecomb made Aug 7 at 2015 9:45 AM

PO1 Mike Edgecomb — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 09:45:43 -0400

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2015 10:15 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 10:15:28 -0400

Honorably serving and SATISFYING your contractual obligations in relation to your service agreement is the line for me. If you couldn't even complete your initial term then you don't fall into a veteran category in my book. I'm not trying to take that away from those who fell short. I see it as not insulting those who served, bled, and died in service to this country. A person who couldn't even complete training has no right to stand among this group. Reality check.

Response by Sgt Spencer Sikder made Aug 7 at 2015 10:45 AM

Sgt Spencer Sikder — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 10:45:25 -0400

No....I don't recall the prescribed definition, I thought 180 days, but it could be longer.

Response by Capt Lance Gallardo made Aug 7 at 2015 11:02 AM

Capt Lance Gallardo — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 11:02:49 -0400

Of course not! UNLESS you were injured permanently during boot camp/basic training and that is the reason you did not graduate. You would be eligible for VA Disability payments and full veterans benefits for the rest of your life. If killed during Basic/Boot Training, you and your survivors would rate all benefits normally accorded a US Service Member killed in the line of duty.

Response by Capt Lance Gallardo made Aug 7 at 2015 11:03 AM

Capt Lance Gallardo — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 11:03:27 -0400

Response by CPO John Yerby made Aug 7 at 2015 11:06 AM

CPO John Yerby — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 11:06:18 -0400

That's called "Stolen Valor". Pisses you off doesn't it? She's not deserving, and she isn't being truthful in the matter either. I'll say this and leave it... She's a liar. Sprained ankles in boot camp/basic training are a dime a dozen. She has no conscience. I'd leave her be.

Response by Cpl Matt Robertson made Aug 7 at 2015 12:02 PM

Cpl Matt Robertson — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 12:02:36 -0400

If she quit in boot and didn't even graduate then no. No she's not.

Response by SrA Edward Vong made Aug 7 at 2015 12:04 PM

SrA Edward Vong — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 12:04:46 -0400

I believe that the moment you lift up your right arm, you become a veteran, because at one point in your life, you were willing to put yourself aside for service to your country.

Now....with that aside, benefits and treatment are different for those who don't complete certain criteria. I personally wouldn't go around boasting that I am a veteran if I never completed basic.

Response by Cpl Tou Lee Yang made Aug 7 at 2015 1:19 PM

Cpl Tou Lee Yang — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 13:19:15 -0400

No, if you fail bootcamp you haven't earn the title of....Marines, Sailor, Soldier, or Airman.

Response by Sgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 7 at 2015 7:35 PM

Sgt Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 07 Aug 2015 19:35:09 -0400

No because recruit is not a rank. You can not be a vet without attaining any rank. Stupid civilians sometimes I swear

Response by Cpl Count Hopkins made Aug 9 at 2015 6:49 PM

Cpl Count Hopkins — Sun, 09 Aug 2015 18:49:13 -0400

According to the Veterans Administration and the Department of Defense, to be considered a veteran an individual must complete a total of 180 days of military service (starting from the first day of recruit training barring any medical/psychological issues obtained while training in the armed forces) or through breach of contract with said military branch (through no fault of the recruit) that allows for the discharge of the soldier/airman/sailor/marine/coast guardsmen before, during, or after the training session has been fulfilled.
Unless these criteria have been met, the individual is not and cannot be defined as a veteran. Furthermore, if this person has, is , or is trying to profit from a falsely assumed veteran status (either by financial gains or the receiving of gifts and services solicited or unsolicited) then they are in violation of the Stolen Valor Act.

Response by CPL Richard Flagg made Aug 12 at 2015 4:21 AM

CPL Richard Flagg — Wed, 12 Aug 2015 04:21:52 -0400

Until you complete basic training be it Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, or Coast Guard then you are not a veteran; unless due no fault of your own you were medically discharged. Now this person you know is doing the Stolen Valor thing and should be publicly shamed and called out. Just my .223

Response by Sgt Mitchell Sporar made Aug 13 at 2015 10:14 PM

Sgt Mitchell Sporar — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 22:14:28 -0400

Not in my book

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 13 at 2015 10:24 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 22:24:33 -0400

She was a basic trainee, not a graduate, not a soldier, airmen, sailor, marine, or vet.

Response by SSgt Charles Edwards made Aug 13 at 2015 10:28 PM

SSgt Charles Edwards — Thu, 13 Aug 2015 22:28:26 -0400

A sprained ankle, eh? While mine didn't happen in basic, I told the doc in medical I didn't want crutches (not sure if that was a smart move) and I informed my leadership I would still be able to post. I did, with limitations. I worked primarily as a flight security controller for my area and if an exercise required the three-man SRT, I would switch with the other controller. When I was able to put weight on my ankle and resume normal activities, we responded to an exercise where I was the AG. Unfortunately, that ankle wasn't 100 percent and when I put on the ammo pack, I fell backward like a tree. My team thought it was the funniest thing they had seen, but we made adjustments and pressed.

I'm still trying to figure out how such an injury gets you out instead of recycled. Even in the proverbial "chair force", a sprained ankle isn't enough to show you the door.

Response by SSG John Erny made Aug 24 at 2015 2:59 PM

SSG John Erny — Mon, 24 Aug 2015 14:59:18 -0400

The "law" may say one is a veteran after serving for a day or week; however, do we accept them as one of us. Not really, but if they are honest about what happened that goes a long way; It is better to have tried and failed than never tried at all. I can respect some who says, "yeah, I enlisted but was medically discharged for an injury during basic." Not owning up to that is the same as stolen valour.

Response by Robert Dulany made Nov 18 at 2015 3:57 AM

Robert Dulany — Wed, 18 Nov 2015 03:57:36 -0500

I wanted to post a response in favor of this woman's definition, but not her behavior.

There is no federal law that defines what is a veteran or is not a veteran. Typically, a law is passed giving benefits, and for the purpose of receiving those benefits, some veterans are eligible and others are not. And we also live in a federalist system, and the states have varying definitions. For example, in Massachusetts you are a veteran if you served 180 days, and in Texas, if you served 180 days (excluding training).

Of course, some benefits are reserved for those who died in combat, others for serving in combat, others for those who served a certain length of time, etc.

TN has all those categories, and also includes some laws that just say you are a veteran if you served any time and were honorably discharged. And btw, even the Federal government has a cold war certificate program where any length of time (during the cold war) will get you that certificate.

I think it is good that anyone who served in peacetime is generally more respectful of those who served in war time.

I, personally, didn't serve a long time, and I'm respectful of anyone who served in combat, or anyone that served a long time.

I don't want anything, I don't celebrate Veterans day and I don't talk about my service. However, if I apply to a job and if they asked if I served, I have to say I did. In today's world if you have anything wrong on your resume it's considered fraud. Like it or not, I have to occasionally claim I'm a veteran, depending upon the scenario, and you know what, I'm not a lawyer, I just have to do the best I can.

I'm offended by veteran's who don't like me telling the truth, to be honest. I'm obligated to tell the truth, I hide it when I can - but if pressed, I am a veteran. Look, I served about a year in active duty, and the rest on the individual ready reserves. Sure the IRR isn't a big commitment, but look, the government can't on the one hand count me as part of their strategic capacity and on the other hand pretend I don't exist.

They can't insist I can be called at any time, and then say I wasn't on call for them. I served 1 year active duty, and 7 years on the IRR. I don't ask for any more respect than a civilian but yeah, I can't lie either - I am a former member of the armed forces, and if that's your definition of veteran, that's me.

Response by Lisa Tozzi made Jan 18 at 2016 12:04 PM

Lisa Tozzi — Mon, 18 Jan 2016 12:04:29 -0500

I am not familiar with Marine Laws but know someone that is representing themselves as a 10 year Marine when he never even made it through boot camp. Not only in public but on job applications. Someone recently told me that there is a name for that and that you cannot represent yourself as a Marine that has served 10 years when you were discharged from boot camp. Can someone respond please. Thank you

Response by Will Covel made Apr 11 at 2016 7:55 PM

Will Covel — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:55:23 -0400

Looking to find out if my brother in law completed Marine boot camp. He claims he did but has nothing to show or prove he did or didnt. Every time the subject comes up and he gets upset and changes the subject. I know there is a AL Mar list id like to know if there is a way to find out if he made it or not. How would I go about finding out for sure.

Response by Will Covel made Apr 11 at 2016 7:55 PM

Will Covel — Mon, 11 Apr 2016 19:55:26 -0400

Response by SGM Mikel Dawson made Apr 18 at 2016 9:15 PM

SGM Mikel Dawson — Mon, 18 Apr 2016 21:15:30 -0400

I'd ask how much disability she is drawing? If disabled, she'd be medically discharged and able to draw something.

Response by PVT Xavier Gage made Jun 23 at 2016 10:48 AM

PVT Xavier Gage — Thu, 23 Jun 2016 10:48:03 -0400

Private Gage u.s army (basic training: fort benning georgia station in fort lois georgia) here i was in the military for 1 year and after that one year happened unfortunately i was mentally discharged so no... if you do graduate and then something happens, i think you should be a veteran no matter how long or how far you went into the military.

Response by Gregory Alexander made Aug 20 at 2016 9:03 AM

Gregory Alexander — Sat, 20 Aug 2016 09:03:05 -0400

After reading all this I can now breath and release a heavy burden! I was one of those that failed to make it thru basic! I've carried the guilt till this day. Veterans day is a constant reminder of my failure. However I've would never dawn the honored Marine Corps uniforms or apparel knowing what it takes to earn it. I find it hard to get some folks to realize this fact when they try to tell me "Oh but at least you tried!". Good meaning folk but it tells me they have no clue.

I believe no self respecting person that has tried and failed other than injury would ever claim the title of Marine, or Soldier, but we do support those that did make the cut! To all of you I Thank you for your service with all my heart and soul!

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Nov 6 at 2016 7:40 PM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Nov 2016 19:40:23 -0500

After 2 years in you'll receive a letter from your military branch stating you are eligible to veteran benefits, and can be called a "Veteran". Even if you graduate boot camp you cannot consider yourself a veteran.

Response by SP5 Joel O'Brien made Nov 6 at 2016 9:57 PM

SP5 Joel O'Brien — Sun, 06 Nov 2016 21:57:46 -0500

While not looking for any glory or brownie points here...I got hurt while at the range(leg injury) in Basic and was told to walk back with the company and THEN go to sick call which resulted in an ankle-to-hip cast. I still remember my Company Commander's last words to me. "Too bad you screwed up, O'Brien!" Fear of being recycled was with me until I accomplished Basic to somebody's liking. With a few adjustments, I finished Basic in a Profile Platoon and me and my cast went on to AIT together. The cast and I parted company after a month-plus of togetherness and I went on with my Army life. After Basic = A veteran.

Response by SSgt Kevin Main made Feb 16 at 2017 5:21 PM

SSgt Kevin Main — Thu, 16 Feb 2017 17:21:29 -0500

Dude I hurt my ankle multiple times. Once I was doing pre-deployment training I hurt it extremely bad doing combatives (took 7-9 months to heal). I ended up going through the rest of training on a sprained ankle including in the field exercises. I never took so many friggin Ibuprofen... or felt so miserable. So to drop out cause of that is weak af.

Response by PO2 Private RallyPoint Member made Feb 27 at 2017 11:03 AM

PO2 Private RallyPoint Member — Mon, 27 Feb 2017 11:03:52 -0500

I personally feel if you havent served at least a little while at a duty station your not a veteran. And you should definitely not be accepting accolades if you havent been in a combat zone (unless you've been in a support rating as they dont always get the opportunity).
But I thought you had to graduate bootcamp to actually be considered "in the Navy".

Response by PO1 Larry McDonald made Jun 19 at 2017 2:02 PM

PO1 Larry McDonald — Mon, 19 Jun 2017 14:02:00 -0400

I have struggled with this myself as I know someone who drooped out of boot-camp and calls themselves a veteran even filed for and is now receiving benefits years latter and being seen at the VA. I researched this on the VA site and because of there rules the person is technically considered a veteran. I don't agree with there rules to me if you can stay and finish boot-camp but chose to get out you are not a veteran and do not deserve the right to be called one.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Aug 6 at 2017 7:28 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 06 Aug 2017 07:28:04 -0400

I feel that if you don't graduate basic military training then you are not a veteran. It's like failing an interview and claiming you work for said company. But veteran is a revered status unlike just any other civilian career-so it's worse than my example.

Response by Randy Schwanke made Aug 19 at 2017 11:15 PM

Randy Schwanke — Sat, 19 Aug 2017 23:15:37 -0400

If the person dropped out of their own free will, no they are not a Veteran. If they were injured during basic, and was medically discharged then by AR's they are not considered Veteran, but are qualified for benefits. The person didnt enter basic with that injury. However, a restart should have been done, and refusal on the persons behalf equals no Veteran Status, and seperation from service during enlistment. Basically, couldnt or wouldnt complete basic.
I enlisted in the Coast Guard, I did not get to complete basic, however it was not because I elected to not do so. This choice was made by the powers that be, I was given an Honorable Discharge with a re-enlistment code of RE-3. I was denied benefits period, I don't go around saying I am a Veteran, nor do I get anything for enlisting, that would be wrong and against my morals and values.
I was told that I had too many cavities, (yep, that's right, it wasn't a typo), I was in basic for 2 months, and fought hard to remain, I tried everything in my power to make them reconsider, upto and including a call from my State Senator to the Base Commander. It all was for not, and with 2 weeks remaining of my original company basic, even begged for them to not discharge me, I told them all I didn't care how many times I needed to restart if that was necessary, while I remained in, to have the cavities fixed.
I admit, I did have cavities, however, I was told that the most cavities that they would accept and allow for continued training was 8... I had 11 :(
I passed all MEPS screenings, dental included, took my oath, and shipped on date.
Anyway, I was told to get cavities corrected and I would be welcomed back, I had nothing, no job, no income, no insurance, not looking good to get those corrected there. So...
This was all before this keep your kids on your parents insurance until 26 years old (screwed there).
So after waiting a year, I re-enlisted in the Army National Guard, went through MEPS all good again, Went in on the DEP, did that for more than 5 months, was, shipped out, was in basic for a month, was paid each month while on DEP, since I did participate in drills.
Anyway, a month into basic, they started the indepth physicals, all was good, but them (Yep, another hiccup coming I sensed), sure enough, I got called into a review board with a Marine Captain heading it up, I was running everything through my mind, asking myself what I did wrong...When I was a child, about 7 years old, I learned through my own fault, that I was allergic to bee/wasp venom.
As soon as they dug that up, I was bounced out again!, because I was allergic to bee/wasp venom (I can't win for losing).
But despite all the build ups, and let downs, and efforts on my part, and others trying to help make my goal happen, it didn't.
I still don't claim Veteran, but I do claim PRIDE, INTEGRITY, and GUTS (spells P.I.G.), I went on to a stent as a State Correctional Officer.
I would have given anything to have been granted the ability to have a Military Career, but for whatever reason(s) it didn't happen. I still don't claim Veteran, and no benefits, but I always looked back, and I see those who have returned from the currect events, and say to myself, "Those are the Veterans, Those are the true Hero's". I tried like hell, and can honestly say I did, and wasn't afraid to enlist and serve my Country, although, it seems my country powers that be, didn't feel I was good enough.

So for those claiming VETERAN and didn't even get as far as I did. Remember this, Some of us, when we get to Heaven will be Ridin in, while you wait in line.
Thank you for letting me share this, it is the first time I have spoke of it since it happen, I was 22 then, I'm now 53.... Memories is all I have, Thank You to ALL The True VETERANS ML&R

Randy

Response by Chadney Duncan-Pauley made Oct 20 at 2017 1:20 AM

Chadney Duncan-Pauley — Fri, 20 Oct 2017 01:20:01 -0400

I have a family member who never finished boot camp, and yet gets free check ups and so forth from the VA. Is that legal?

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 2 at 2018 12:52 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 02 Jan 2018 12:52:27 -0500

"Veteran" is a very gray word. For some, it means any service at all. For others, it means a deployment. For others still, it means combat. Before I knew the official definition (any service, completion of contract), I was of the mindset that a veteran was someone who deployed.

Response by SSG Michael Williams made Feb 26 at 2018 1:36 PM

SSG Michael Williams — Mon, 26 Feb 2018 13:36:48 -0500

Hell no she's NOT a vet...more like a WUSS! We had an individual who worked at a Correctional facility with us that joined the Marines but quit before even finishing his first week of bootcamp! While celebrating the MARINES birthday he was "presented" the knife to cut the cake since tradition is the oldest and youngest Marine make the first slice. Needless to say, the oldest was a 12year Marine vet who served in 'Nam and 2 days later found out about this "Marine" who was telling people who weren't military that he served in combat was pissed! So was a fellow corrections officer who happened to be a retired Marines Sargent Major! That individual was on everyone's shit-list for the majority of corrections officers at that facility were either retired military, still serving or discharged after their 2nd enlistment!

It's pathetic when you have individuals like these wannabes claiming something they are not...

Personally, I consider you a veteran when you graduate BootCamp, BMT or Basic Training...if you're discharged during that time because of a severe injury which prevents you from graduating I respect you but don't consider recognizing you as a vet.

Response by Sgt Tonette Brw made Mar 4 at 2018 1:58 AM

Sgt Tonette Brw — Sun, 04 Mar 2018 01:58:53 -0500

If she didn't serve 180 days , she is NOT a Veteran!

Response by Ted Meyer made May 6 at 2018 9:12 AM

Ted Meyer — Sun, 06 May 2018 09:12:23 -0400

I understand your feelings about the unnamed woman but I have a question that I haven't asked in 42yrs and I hope someone here can answer. I enlisted in the Marines in 1976 and I left after a little more than 1 month of basic training. You can say I couldn't hack it and I wouldn't argue that point. I know I was immature and didn't like being bossed around. In any case I received an Honorable & Faithful Service discharge certificate and DD-214 which states I was a Private and on the DD-214 it states Basic Marine.. I'm now 60yrs old and have never stated I was in the Marines on any job application nor tried to get benefits. When I was discharged my DI's suggested I do not state I was a Marine and I have taken their advise all these years. However, I have recently applied to a couple of large companies that do only military work. I always check the box that states Not a veteran/ No military service.. I am concerned that they will find that I was actually in the Marines and disqualify me for employment because I have lied on the application. If you or anyone here can answer that question for me it would be appreciated.

Response by Sgt Chris Barickman made Jul 15 at 2018 5:43 AM

Sgt Chris Barickman — Sun, 15 Jul 2018 05:43:23 -0400

It's not her fault for getting hurt the main thing is she took the oath to serve her country and could have given her life that means alot

Response by SR Charles Branscum made Aug 18 at 2018 2:05 PM

SR Charles Branscum — Sat, 18 Aug 2018 14:05:22 -0400

The term Veteran should be reserved for those who have seen combat, been wounded or killed on active duty or put in harms way. If you don't fit that bill than your just a government employee.

Response by D Morgan made Oct 27 at 2018 5:26 PM

D Morgan — Sat, 27 Oct 2018 17:26:04 -0400

I am not sure if anyone is still monitoring this but here goes. I went into the Army in the 90’s. I fractured my ankle the second week of basic, but didn’t realize it until literally right before the last week. I had continued to train on it thinking that it was a sprain. I was running during pt and for the first time ever had fallen out of a run. When I was sent to medical they found the fracture and it was also displaced. I was sent to the rehab program and spent almost five months trying to get back to basic which I was told I had to start over. I had no problem with that until they told me that they were going to have to re-break it and it could take up to a year to even see if it worked. So after talking to the doctor I was discharged for general medical. My point is I have never considered myself a veteran and never will. That honor belongs to others. I’m proud that I did what I did but that’s it. Anyway thank you for your service!

Response by PO3 Sthyatt . made Nov 28 at 2018 3:11 PM

PO3 Sthyatt . — Wed, 28 Nov 2018 15:11:44 -0500

If she did not serve at least 180 consecutive days, she is not eligible for veteran status or any of the benefits that come with that.

Response by SMSgt Lawrence McCarter made Aug 30 at 2022 11:25 AM

SMSgt Lawrence McCarter — Tue, 30 Aug 2022 11:25:50 -0400

Someone that can't even manage to finish basic training in My estimate is NOT a Veteran. Its not that there aren't any injuries at all but if there is a injury it's usually temporary and then once cured return to and finish basic training. I spent 22 years in an Air Force uniform, Retired and NEVER had a problem hacking any part of it and it's NOT hard to do.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Aug 30 at 2022 2:11 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 30 Aug 2022 14:11:58 -0400

F@ck her. Don't lose any sleep over this matter.

Response by SGT Eugene Jacobson made Aug 30 at 2022 3:54 PM

SGT Eugene Jacobson — Tue, 30 Aug 2022 15:54:33 -0400

You're not a veteran unless you honorably complete your term of service. There's no wiggle room there. Try getting veteran's benefits without doing so, I think you'll find they're not available. Anywhere.