A new NCO in a unit full of peers/Should a new NCO be PCS'd?

SGT Christopher Mackison — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 11:01:45 -0400

I'm sure I'm not the only one who has had this problem, but I am looking for advice. I was just recently promoted to E-5, and it's been somewhat of a difficult transition. Everyone in my platoon, I've went through AIT with, and I'm pretty close friends with each of them. Now that I'm in a leadership position, it's been difficult to get anything accomplished. When work comes up and I go to delegate it to each person, they look at me as a joke, and want to spend more time joking and playing around, and don't really take me seriously. And from the newer guys, now when I tell them to get something done all I hear is, "you're power tripping" or the most recent, "I don't have to listen to you, you're not my NCO." What kind of advice can you all give me to help me fix this problem?

Also, which bring me up to the next part. When a soldier get PCS'd when they make NCO, or should they stay with their current unit. Why or why not?

Response by PO1 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2014 11:15 AM

PO1 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 11:15:11 -0400

A good tactic would be to remove their audience if they are making jokes. Pull that person aside and delegate to him or her alone. It changes the dynamic of the conversation if it is you asking them with no one to observe. You don't have to order people around if they are willing to help when you just ask. If you pull each one of them aside and ask them to knock it off with the jokes for the sake of your newer soldier/sailor/etc. and their discipline, they may take that as a reminder that they should be an example. If you're friends with them then ask them as a friend to remember that you are no longer allowed to constantly be friendly at work. There are things to be done. If that doesn't work. Show them you mean business with some paper.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jul 4 at 2014 11:15 AM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 11:15:25 -0400

First off, congrats and happy 4th SGT Christopher Mackison .

I've seen this happen often in the NG. It is difficult to go from peer to leader in the same unit for the very examples you give. I would definitely say the smart move is to at least have the new NCO move to a different platoon for a change of climate and to be in with soldiers they have not been around. This would definitely give the new NCO a chance to prove themselves and establish their authority.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2014 11:25 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 11:25:50 -0400

Good question. Better question, do you think the Army should spend anywhere from $5-20,000 to move everyone because they have trouble asserting themselves as a leader?

This reminds me of a story my battalion CSM once told me. Back in the day, the day he was promoted to SGT, one of his buddy's said, "Hey, Condliffe". And he turned around and they joked for a few minutes. Then his PSG came over and dusted that brand new SGT off for a good hour. "You are their leader, not their friend. You can't have it both ways."

Stop being their friend, throat punch who you need to, break a few hearts, and most importantly - be the kind of leader you would respect, and you will earn their respect.

Response by MSG Gene Potocki made Jul 4 at 2014 11:55 AM

MSG Gene Potocki — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 11:55:58 -0400

Back in my day (Ha-Ha) in the 75th Ranger Regiment, the norm was to move them (the newly promoted Sergeant) to a different company, if they could not first move them to a different platoon within the company.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2014 12:53 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 12:53:06 -0400

Welcome to the NCO Corps SGT Christopher Mackison . You are about to embark on one the more brutal times in your NCO career, one where you will endure what appear to be difficult challenges. It will hurt your "friends" feelings, but if they were truly your friends, they would be supportive of you and follow your orders. Understand and learn to use this phrase "It's not personal, it's professional" We are in a profession of arms and are required to follow the orders of those appointed above us. You are now appointed above your peers and they are duty-bound and honor-bound to follow your orders. Plant your feet and assert your authority, but don't be above reaching out to your senior NCOs for support. Try having a discussion "under the oak tree" of how your professional relationship has changed with these Soldiers. Speak to them "man-to-man" and if they still refuse to comply, the DA Form 4856 is the next weapon at your disposal. Enough of those will reduce a Soldier in pay grade for pattern of misconduct or administrative reduction. For some, that's the only way they learn.

Response by CW2 Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2014 6:12 PM

CW2 Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 18:12:49 -0400

When I was promoted to SGT and SSG I did not move units nor PCS. I gave my soldiers in both cases 30 days to sink in that I was no longer their peer in terms of rank and would continue to be the example. Some feelings may get hurt but I think if you can assert yourself professionally with your friends than you would have no issue with soldiers you have yet to meet.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 4 at 2014 10:29 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 04 Jul 2014 22:29:44 -0400

A lot of comments on here nailed it pretty good. I just have a question; are you still hanging out with these "friends" after work? I have seen a lot of Soldiers who are friends and buddies then one gets promoted and he tries to be the 'boss" at work but still goes drinking and hanging out after work. It can't happen that way; you can't be that delegating, task enforcing, standard bearer from 0630 to 1700 and then be drinking buddy after hours.

Like other said you need to do what needs to be done for you. They are your friends now but when you are standing on the carpet getting chewed out because you failed the mission they will not be beside you for that. Remember what your career is and take care of business.

Good luck and welcome to the NCO Corps.

Response by CMDCM Gene Treants made Jul 5 at 2014 12:32 PM

CMDCM Gene Treants — Sat, 05 Jul 2014 12:32:35 -0400

Congratulations on your Selection as a leader. Congratulations on your Promotion to NCO since you were recognized for your abilities.

Navy seems to be totally different that Army in this respect. We make our E-4 a Petty Officer Third Class and train him/her how to function as a NCO. Transferring a new PO3 or PO2 to a new Ship or shop would not be practical and the transition can be difficult at times. Support from above is critical and keeping a good eye on subordinates is often required. Counseling and training is the best method I have found to ease the transition, plus support in decisions.

The advice given in this thread is all very good and WILL help. Use it to benefit your place in the Chain-of-Command. Your subordinates will eventually realize that you have proven to be a more effective leader. As others have said, you are a leader, not a friend you YOUR troops. Good Luck in assuming your position and responsibilities.

NO, PCSing early is not the right way. That is just ducking your need to grow and become what you already are, a better leader.

Response by Cpl Glynis Sakowicz made Jul 6 at 2014 11:57 AM

Cpl Glynis Sakowicz — Sun, 06 Jul 2014 11:57:28 -0400

First, Congrats! I never made it to three stripes due to to a back injury, so you have my well wishes, as well as some envy!
As to the question, I'd say that would depend on the 'slot' you are filling. I was Motor Trans, so attaining three stripes for us, usually meant taking on training, assigning runs, and such... I never saw a problem in our unit, but that said, I know it was different for other lower NCOs.
When you go from being one of the team to a team leader, while being surrounded by the same people, its almost impossible to get others to see the rank and the role, versus the person who was slinging back shots with you last week at the E-club.
If it's a problem that makes your job harder or near-impossble to accomplish, then I'd discuss with the upper echelon, and if not PCS, then perhaps move to a different unit, and fast. Once an NCO gets a reputation for not being capable of command, its hard to get that respect back, and sometimes, impossible.
Put in for a lateral or a PCS ASAP before your career becomes "FUBAR" my friend!

Response by SGT Jim Perry made Jul 8 at 2014 3:56 PM

SGT Jim Perry — Tue, 08 Jul 2014 15:56:59 -0400

All good suggestions. I will just add , learn to delegate the jobs and follow up to see that they are done in a timely manner. Follow up on each soldiers work and make sure they know you are holding them accountable for it. Leadership can be lonely work, but you are not running for the job, You have it. Good luck and I am proud of you.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 9 at 2014 4:59 PM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 09 Jul 2014 16:59:28 -0400

Everyone has to go through what you are going through at some point. It is smart to atleast try to move you from one Platoon to another for a fresh start, and at the same time you could request a move from one company to another in the Battlion. That is what PSG's, 1SG's and CSM's are for so bring it up. We leaders help mold you and every Soldier in our ranks and do what is best to mold you into a good Leader even if that means losing you to another company.

If that for some reason cannot happen this is way that I see it, it can go one of two ways. 1) You can step up and wear the rank bestowed on you and enforce the regulations and standard no matter how hard it may be. That is part of being an NCO wether you like it or not. Or, 2) You step down from being an NCO. I only say that because as an NCO you are held to the highest of standards. If you have been around a while you have heard the saying "it's LEADERSHIP not LIKERSHIP." If they are your friends then they should respect you for who you are and what you have accomplished they will do what is right. If not it is your job to cut the ties and be a leader and counsel as required. Ultimatly the ball is in your court now you have to choose what to do with it. Best of luck and welcome to the NCO Corps.

Response by CW2 Ernest Krutzsch made Jul 10 at 2014 10:53 PM

CW2 Ernest Krutzsch — Thu, 10 Jul 2014 22:53:39 -0400

In 1975, I had the same issue, I came to the unit as an E3, and was promoted rather quickly to E5, they said the same things to me...My commander asked me if I wanted to change companies as a result of my promotion, I said no, I had a meeting, told them the deal. Some revolted and said the things you indicated, when I wrote them u, and had the commander give them an article 15 for insubordination, things changed. I did not want to do that to people I was friends with, but they had to know, that I was in charge, I did not join the Army to make friends, but when put in a position of authority, I took it. I was an SFC and told a troop to take his hat off in the PX, he said "You are not in my CoC, I said Ok, got his name his unit and pressed to have him punished under UCMJ, you see, they can say you are not in charge, but until you prove you are, they will run all over you

Response by SFC Mark Merino made Sep 20 at 2014 5:20 PM

SFC Mark Merino — Sat, 20 Sep 2014 17:20:25 -0400

First off.....well done and congrats! It's just like the Corporal curse SGT Christopher Mackison. The adjustment can be hard on both sides. You might have joined the military to travel and meet new people, but you became an NCO to be a leader! Quit thinking like a buddy and start acting like a leader. If your "friends" are going to disrespect and challenge you and make statements like "power trip" it is time to reassess your definition of friends. Time for you to clean house and bring down the hammer. Leadership, not likership! God knows those Apaches aren't going to fix themselves! Once the KW's are gone your job is going to suck even worse. No time to say pretty please. Time to light up their life with a reality check SGT!!!

Response by SPC James Mcneil made Jan 19 at 2015 2:15 PM

SPC James Mcneil — Mon, 19 Jan 2015 14:15:14 -0500

It would probably be best to be around people who did not know the new NCO as a junior enlisted soldier.

Response by PVT Dominique Stewart made Jan 20 at 2015 12:50 AM

PVT Dominique Stewart — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 00:50:56 -0500

Newly promoted NCOs shouldn't be PCSd. The peers just may have to maintain proper military bearing.

No matter how cool we were as fellow junior enlisted, the day you join the NCO Corps, I give you nothing less than the customs and courtesy you have earned, SGT.

Response by SFC Private RallyPoint Member made Jan 20 at 2015 1:22 AM

SFC Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 20 Jan 2015 01:22:50 -0500

These are the easier challenges that you will now be facing because it doesn't get any easier. The next time any Soldier fails to follow your instructions, utilize the DA FORM 4856. This will show them that you are serious about your leadership position. If you don't squash the situation now it will only get worse. Soldiers will never take you seriously if you don't show them that you are a strong leader. Stripes are harder to earn than to lose. Don't let Soldiers bring you down.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 28 at 2015 1:46 AM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 28 Jul 2015 01:46:21 -0400

yes... i ran into the same problem... one day I got tired of it... Put my foot down...

Response by SPC Jared McDaniel made Nov 11 at 2015 7:41 PM

SPC Jared McDaniel — Wed, 11 Nov 2015 19:41:04 -0500

If you ask me it shouldn't matter. Rank is rank. Doesn't matter who wears it.. But you were fine as an NCO, a little green but who isnt.. Lord knows you where a better NCO than I could have been.