A new act in congress aims to let SMs sue the gov't for medical malpractice. Is this a good or bad idea?

MAJ Private RallyPoint Member — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:51:31 -0500

Passing through the House last week and currently sitting in the Senate Judiciary Committee, there is a bill called S.245: SFC Richard Stayskal Military Medical Accountability Act of 2019.This act seeks to change the long-standing precedent called the Feres Doctrine that prohibits SMs and their families from filing medical malpractice suits under the Federal Tort Claims Act (FTCA). The bill is expected to pass the Senate sometime this week and be on the President's desk soon thereafter.

Since 1950, the Feres Doctrine has prevented SMs and their families from seeking justice after becoming victims of medical malpractice. Born out of a desire to protect the Department of Defense from being sued for incidents related to military service, Feres has instead been interpreted to prevent SMs from filing any negligence claims under the FTCA. This means that an active duty SM and his/her non-military spouse could be misdiagnosed for the same condition in the same military hospital, but only the spouse would have the right to sue.

See this link for the recent story from Army Times: shorturl.at/kmDOW

What are your thoughts about this? Is it a good idea or bad idea? Please answer the survey and comment below.

***UPDATE***
The bill passed the Senate 18DEC19 and is expected to be signed by the President in the coming days.

Response by SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth made Dec 17 at 2019 3:56 PM

SGT David A. 'Cowboy' Groth — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:56:45 -0500

Thank you for the medical report share.

Response by CW5 Jack Cardwell made Dec 17 at 2019 3:58 PM

CW5 Jack Cardwell — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 15:58:19 -0500

You need a Not Sure option.

Response by MAJ Byron Oyler made Dec 17 at 2019 4:26 PM

MAJ Byron Oyler — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:26:05 -0500

Across the board this is a bad idea. Limit it to TJC compliant hospitals in the 50 states, then it is a good idea. There is a very detailed scope of practice in US hospitals that is easier to measure than a medic downrange that attempts a chest tube, does it right below a rib, and hits vessel making them worse not better. That medic 68W may be the only person available to make a difference where as in the US, getting to a doctor with standards is much easier.

Response by SSG Robert Mark Odom made Dec 17 at 2019 4:37 PM

SSG Robert Mark Odom — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 16:37:25 -0500

Apparently there's overwhelming support from members and veterans for this issue.

Response by MAJ Ken Landgren made Dec 17 at 2019 5:49 PM

MAJ Ken Landgren — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 17:49:21 -0500

Hell yes!

Response by SSgt Richard Kensinger made Dec 17 at 2019 6:11 PM

SSgt Richard Kensinger — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 18:11:10 -0500

I've devoted my entire professional life to clinical matters; and I take the following oath seriously:
Above all else, do no harm; if clinically necessary, do the least amount of harm; and consistently act in the beat interests of the patient.
We are having a robust conversation on Medscape in this regard. There is a high consensus that we must be accountable when we make mistakes.
Rich

Response by CAPT Kevin B. made Dec 17 at 2019 8:22 PM

CAPT Kevin B. — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 20:22:13 -0500

Too early to move the thumb for me. Is there a need to do something? Sure. However, I can't see how things get paid for. That makes a difference. Usually when you win a case against the Feds, the money comes out of the Judgement Fund. If the bill is silent on funds, then that would be the default process. However, if the bill says it comes out of DoD or VA hide, AND, no money is appropriated to cover the difference, then these cases will reduce what's available to take care of everyone else. If Judgement Fund runs dry, I don't know that end, but suspect the Agency sucks it up. I need to see the consequences first.

Response by LTC Jason Mackay made Dec 17 at 2019 11:46 PM

LTC Jason Mackay — Tue, 17 Dec 2019 23:46:55 -0500

I don't think the Feres Doctrine was intended for this, but it's the tarp they throw over it. The trouble will be from where they draw the line next. Will a Company Commander or First Sergeant be sued because of profile quibbling?

Response by SSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2019 12:12 AM

SSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 00:12:56 -0500

This is a beautiful idea. Maybe they might actually start being doctors instead of making us wait to get to the states to have a civilian doctor tell us what’s wrong with us because the military docs just wanna give us ibuprofen and hydros and call it good

Response by SPC Richard Roush made Dec 18 at 2019 6:06 AM

SPC Richard Roush — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 06:06:40 -0500

As a former SM, I was denied a SHA(Separation Health Assessment) and was discharged with HEP C and a Hiatal Hernia that took 3 surgeries to "fix". This is a great move, as it now motivates medical staff to do their very best. So many SM's being halfassed diagnosed and treated, CoC in the SM's unit interfering and manipulating SM's treatment and diagnosis.

Response by Lt Col Charlie Brown made Dec 18 at 2019 6:34 AM

Lt Col Charlie Brown — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 06:34:32 -0500

Some of the "mistakes" have been incredibly aggregious...and there has been no recourse at all

Response by PO3 Private RallyPoint Member made Dec 18 at 2019 8:13 AM

PO3 Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 08:13:39 -0500

I have mixed feeling.
While some form of punishment or correction should be taken against medical malpractice.
Military members being able to sue military doctors and receive monetary comp doesn't sit well.
We alreadyndomt pay for the health care as it is and will continue not to after the procedure.
My fear is everyone and their mother threatens suits causing a even worse retention on military providers.

Response by SSgt Boyd Herrst made Dec 18 at 2019 11:56 AM

SSgt Boyd Herrst — Wed, 18 Dec 2019 11:56:59 -0500

Sue but not get any money out of it.. prob’ly be taken care of medically.. when needed..

Response by CPO Nate S. made Dec 19 at 2019 1:01 PM

CPO Nate S. — Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:01:53 -0500

Military medical malpractice is malpractice! However, if just one person decided to file a say Trillion $ law suite for pain and suffering what would that mean in terms of each of our taxes. Where is the settlement money coming from from the "government coffers"? You and I.

Frankly, I have not yet, but I am going to study this law's language. So, my response to follow may well be modified in the not too distant future. However I am going to respond for the time being!

My concern is that every military practitioner should be required to carry a $10 million liability policy at a minimum and that if they choose to can buy into additional "government" insurance pool as defined by governmental rules. This statement is not without its criticisms that I fully recognize!!!

The remittance pain and suffering from harm should be directed at the incompetence of the individual the the primary deterrent for such incompetence. Liability for the government should be limited to effective oversight and assurance of documented appropriate training. The failure to provide oversight or clinical case review, should the right focus for the government. Ask yourself this - is it the "government" or the "actual physician" performing the procedure that caused harm. If the answer is "the government" then I and my wife would have been long "dead by committee"; however, if the skill or lack of skill of the individual physician is the cause, not withstanding equipment or environmental failure beyond the realm of common and uncommon sense can possess or can control then we were both blessed skilled providers that gave us no reason to doubt their skills, because of the manner they executed their caregiving.

People always go for the "deep pockets" and forget that those deep pockets, in this case will be us as taxpayers. Taxpayers, that mainly exist is below so called $250K "elite wealthy class" level. I wonder, before voting YES, if we understand that collectively tax payers will be paying this bill for the 1st case, vs via commercial insurance.

Finally, while I AGREE in principle that holding providers (commercial healthcare or governmental health) that are incompetent to a standard such as being able to be sued is a good idea, however, I have much deeper concerns.

In SGT Warren Crutcher he was referred to a "civilian" surgeon. What has or is stopping him from holding this "civilian" accountable? In this case, the military Dr. appears to have exercised prudent, and asked for professional help. Taking the story of face value, the 1st surgeon was not challenged and has nothing to do with "suing" the government; rather, has everything with suing the "civilian" for their competence. In this case their apparent - competence, especially of the 2nd surgeon is to draw upon his other colleagues to confirm the incompetence of the 1st surgeon.

CAPT Kevin B. is correct "Too early to move the thumb for me. Is there a need to do something? Sure. However, I can't see how things get paid for. That makes a difference. Usually when you win a case against the Feds, the money comes out of the Judgement Fund...." It is the "....I can't see how things get paid for...." that ring very true! If the path is not clearly understood where the money is coming from, rest assured it will eventually come from you and I as taxpayers in one way or another.

SGT Warren Crutcher I understand. I had to build a porch with a ramp for my wife who is retired USN, that needed knee surgery. I did the work myself, but materials were still expensive and I am over 60. My advice for what it is worth is this:

- consider a 'go fund me page' and publish it here, if allowed. Take pictures of needed modifications and summary of those cost estimates so other now how to meet the needs. Seems like of just 10% of the 1.6 millions members of RP could participate that could generate ~ $10 each and might raise you $1.6 million. Of course that is upper end. But, if you could more realistically raise $150,000 basic modification I would glad to put in $10 and even $100 to help you. Get the local media to run your story!

- Frankly, it would interesting for RP to have way to raise such funds to help men and women like you and do it is such as way as to verify the need and certify such a request. If we look at the RP rationally, and assume for the sake of discussion that their are an average of 502 RP members (+/-120) in each county in the 50 states, then members of RP can self-fund support for our fellow veterans to meet needs such as yours. Of course the management of the RP platform would have create some process and deliver transparency with privacy to make such a grandiose idea come to bear. But, it is worth considering!

Collectively, we have to help each other.

Response by MCPO Roger Collins made Dec 19 at 2019 1:31 PM

MCPO Roger Collins — Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:31:53 -0500

This is similar to suing gun manufacturers for crimes committed by individuals. One of the main reasons Medical professionals trend to the VA, no malpractice insurance. Now, a law holding the Doctor/ practitioner accountable and I’m in.

Response by SGT Warren Crutcher made Dec 20 at 2019 2:09 AM

SGT Warren Crutcher — Fri, 20 Dec 2019 02:09:53 -0500

I hope they were very careful on the wording of this or the tax payers are going to bite the bullet.