Posted on Mar 28, 2014
Why doesn't the Army emphasize Weapons Marksmanship the same as Physical Fitness?
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Why is it that marksmanship is placed on the bottom shelf while physical fitness is put on a pedestal? Why is it that we are quick to give a Skillcraft qualification but look down on moderate PT scores? Why aren't we looking at the all encompassing qualities of a Soldier?
Physical Training
Marksmanship
Training
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 23
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I have often thought about this same issue during my career. When I was enlisted the number of promotion points one could get for advancement to E5 or E6 was the same (50 max, back in the 90s) for weapons qualification and APFT (may still be today), but that is where the similarities ended. 15 years later I find myself arguing why my Soldier who shot expert on the M9 four ranges in a row should be considered for an AAM, since the commander has a policy of giving them away for anyone who scores 300 on the APFT.... Needless to say the commander did not feel that 30/30 on the M9 was as meaningful as 300 on the APFT, even though it was accomplished four times in a row. I cannot answer the question, but I personally believe they should get equal emphasis and respect. But again, that is just my opinion!
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MAJ (Join to see)
SGT Sunny Lalingua - Agreed, but if I were an enemy I would be much more frightened of 250 APFT Soldier who shoots 40/40, than I would be of a 300 APFT Soldier who shoots 25/40. After all, the Army exists to defeat the enemies of the United States in close combat, not to go to the gym and look better than our enemies....
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SGT Sunny Lalingua
in the old days, marksmanship and lots of marching and obstacle courses were the norm. Today,it's still cheaper to buy a single round of 5.56 mm @ 21 cents and let the untrained marksman fire unlimited vollies at an unseen enemy because his pride makes him want to get a "Kill shot" that he can tell his war stories with when he gets home. But, according to the article, "How Much Does a Bullet Cost?"
May 2002
By Col. Stanley Lillie, Maj. Mark T. Corbett and Rick O'Donnell
it is the cost after the bullet is fired and the lead contaminates the ground that the real 21st century cost is realized. With DoD needing to decontaminate the training ranges after so much lead leaches in the ground, marksmanship training gets restricted. Today's APFT soldier has to get better faster with less or hone his shooting skills on the battlefield. By not contaminating our berms and sending that lead downrange Afghanistan, we don't have to do the toxic cleanup and we can get away with minimal stateside marksmanship training.
May 2002
By Col. Stanley Lillie, Maj. Mark T. Corbett and Rick O'Donnell
it is the cost after the bullet is fired and the lead contaminates the ground that the real 21st century cost is realized. With DoD needing to decontaminate the training ranges after so much lead leaches in the ground, marksmanship training gets restricted. Today's APFT soldier has to get better faster with less or hone his shooting skills on the battlefield. By not contaminating our berms and sending that lead downrange Afghanistan, we don't have to do the toxic cleanup and we can get away with minimal stateside marksmanship training.
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CW3 Harvey K.
SGT Sunny Lalingua - So it's better to be physically fit in order to kill, than it is to be proficient with the tools we use to kill. Seems that the goal is the same, with a difference in how close a relationship the two activities have to the ultimate purpose of our armed forces.
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SGT Sunny Lalingua
The New Army Combat Fitness Test (ACFT) in detail
1)The 3 Repetition Maximum Deadlift (MDL) event represents movements required to safely and effectively lift heavy loads from the ground, jump, bound and tol...
well, that's what the Army is saying these days, chief! have you seen the new ACFT which replaced the APFT? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9RlS8LZgVc It's now more important, as I understand it, to be successful at this PT than rifle marksmanship.
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Anyone can PT, but marksmanship takes skill. A lot of people's self image rotates on their being a PT stud, so they devalue anything else and emphasize that.
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1SG Michael Blount
SSG - this is only a guess, but I'm thinking PT is a good indicator of one's motivation, whereas BRM takes range time, ammo, etc, doesn't happen very often and is more difficult to judge.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
I'm more inclined to think our duty performance is a better indication of our motivation.
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In addition to the comments above, I think it comes down to the cost of rounds to get someone to qualify. Firing a weapon is more expensive than someone conducting PT. That is why most units only go to the range once or twice a year if you are lucky or getting ready to deploy.
I spent a good amount of time on the ranges and when we did it was $25K a day and we did this once a quarter. Our higher HQ always gave us a hard time for going to the range that much but we were justified because of our mission set.
Traditional Army units don't get that luxury because they have other requirements that take the funding of firing your weapon away. Plus the regulation only requires you to shoot once a year, which I think is absurd.
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MAJ (Join to see)
I agree that cost is the major factor. PT is emphasized more because there are more opportunities to work on it.
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SPC David Hannaman
It seems as though if cost/range availability/natural ability is the issue then a *higher* emphasis should be placed on BRM. After all, *everybody* does PT, but someone that fires expert may have more motivation to develop the skill in their own time.
BTW, I went to every range day the year I was stationed in Korea... I was the only person in the unit qualified as a combat lifesaver. Glad I was, I got to shoot everything we had!
BTW, I went to every range day the year I was stationed in Korea... I was the only person in the unit qualified as a combat lifesaver. Glad I was, I got to shoot everything we had!
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MAJ Byron Oyler
MAJ (Join to see) - We can emphasize the cost out of the range if we want. Right now in the nurse corps, ICU nurses that get their CCRN can sign a six year bonus for $35K/yr. To get to that bonus, you have to work your ass off outside of duty hours and it is not easy. Before COVID you could get an AR-15 for around $700 and 5.56 ammo was cheap. I prefer to shoot my M1 Garand and M14 and the M4 was so easy the next time I went to an Army range. I bet as an RN I can out shoot many infantry with my M&P10 simply because I like shooting.
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