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I am at the finish line of my transition from active duty. I've squared away my Texas National Guard enlistment to continue serving part-time and I've been applying for jobs daily.
Last summer, I commented about the programs that corporate America has to offer Junior Military Officers, or JMOs, as they leave military service. I still understand the thought process behind this recruiting practice, and still do not want to take anything away from it. I still and always will believe that JMOs are a vital part of the military. By virtue of the things they do in uniform and the positions they hold, they have skills and experiences that can transfer to the corporate world in a major way.
But what about the leaders that helped shape these JMOs as they entered the operational force of their particular services? What about Non-commissioned leaders that helped these JMOs develop into true leaders? Where are the NCO programs for the enlisted leader who has just as much leadership experience, if not more in some cases.
To get to the root of this issue, we have to first examine the role of the Non-commissioned Officer. From an Army perspective, these folks have 2 basic responsibilities: accomplish the mission by taking the Commander’s intent and making it reality and looking out for the welfare of the junior Soldiers, professionally and personally. Additionally, many of these enlisted leaders are also doing the same duties as junior officers. In fact, it is safe to say that most JMOs probably learned how to correctly accomplish these duties from an NCO. As an E-5, I have helped mold quite a few JMOs by training them on how to meet and exceed expectations of the senior leadership within the unit. When my former 1LT Platoon Leader needed guidance on our communication equipment to include in a brief to the Brigade commander, who did he turn to? The NCOs in the platoon. Who did he ask to proofread said brief before submitting it to his boss? The NCOs in the platoon. So, if these Non-commissioned Officers, or NCOs, are the ones getting the job done and indeed training these officers, who may become “Leaders of Industry” in the civilian world, why do not more Non-commissioned Officer programs exist in the corporate world?
Part of the problem is that Non-commissioned Officers are just that…Non-commissioned, that is to say, they either do not have the college degree required to receive a commission in the military or they do have the degree, but choose not to be officers. The issue is that many civilian leadership positions require a Bachelors Degree. This poses yet another interesting question…who may be a better candidate for a supervisory position in a civilian job, based off of education and experience…the E-5 with a few college credits who has successfully led personnel, helped members of their team move up in rank, and maintained equipment worth astronomical amounts of money for 6 or 7 years, or the 1LT who did some of the same things for 4 years? If the concern is that these enlisted leaders are not well-rounded or “formally educated” enough, then this speaks even more to the need for NCO development programs to help address those concerns and fine tune these proven leaders’ potential in a corporate setting.
I still refer to one company who is looking at this qualified candidate pool. Safeway, a grocery chain in the Western U.S. and Canada, has supported employment of veterans through its JMO/NCO Program. In 2012, Safeway hired nearly 1,500 veterans, including over 1,300 of them in the company's retail stores. Safeway has also committed to hiring at least another 1,500 veterans by the end of 2013.
"We saw an opportunity to recruit new kinds of leaders who will become an important and critical part of our future," said Larree Renda, Safeway’s executive vice president. "Our JMO and NCO recruiting program officially launched in 2010. We accept applicants who have been officers or Non-commissioned Officers in the military and place them in an accelerated leadership program." Graduates qualify for store manager and assistant manager jobs and a range of other manager-level positions in the distribution and backstage departments at Safeway. Additionally, Safeway’s salaries for these positions are not shabby. According to Glassdoor.com, the average total compensation for an assistant manager is $57,214, while store managers’ total pay averages $88,632. If Safeway, and a few other companies, are open-minded enough to acknowledge that NCOs can contribute to the success of the organization in management positions, why don’t other companies?
So, what are the solutions? Yes, “civilianizing” accomplishments and potential on the resume will help separating/retiring enlisted leaders, but only if employers are willing to start recognizing that practical and proven leadership experience should be looked upon in a positive light, just like the college degree. Secondly, NCOs should seek out higher education while serving. The money is there, and best of all, it is free in most cases. Thirdly, companies should continue to hire Veterans into talent acquisition positions. Veterans that recruit for a company have an outlook that those who have never served could not understand and know what NCOs can offer a company. Also, establish programs that hone in on those enlisted leaders who can and have led in high-stress situations, but may not have sought out college education.
My hope is that more companies learn that JMOs are not the only capable leaders leaving the military, nor are they the only educated leaders leaving the military. For example, I am a Non-commissioned Officer in the United States Army with a Bachelor of Arts in Communication and a Master of Science in Information Technology Management. I have more education than every JMO in my unit and more leadership experience, both in the Army and private sector. Is it fair to say that I can handle a management level position in corporate America?
In the Army, we say "NCOs Lead the Way". I hope corporate America begins to notice how true this is.
Last summer, I commented about the programs that corporate America has to offer Junior Military Officers, or JMOs, as they leave military service. I still understand the thought process behind this recruiting practice, and still do not want to take anything away from it. I still and always will believe that JMOs are a vital part of the military. By virtue of the things they do in uniform and the positions they hold, they have skills and experiences that can transfer to the corporate world in a major way.
But what about the leaders that helped shape these JMOs as they entered the operational force of their particular services? What about Non-commissioned leaders that helped these JMOs develop into true leaders? Where are the NCO programs for the enlisted leader who has just as much leadership experience, if not more in some cases.
To get to the root of this issue, we have to first examine the role of the Non-commissioned Officer. From an Army perspective, these folks have 2 basic responsibilities: accomplish the mission by taking the Commander’s intent and making it reality and looking out for the welfare of the junior Soldiers, professionally and personally. Additionally, many of these enlisted leaders are also doing the same duties as junior officers. In fact, it is safe to say that most JMOs probably learned how to correctly accomplish these duties from an NCO. As an E-5, I have helped mold quite a few JMOs by training them on how to meet and exceed expectations of the senior leadership within the unit. When my former 1LT Platoon Leader needed guidance on our communication equipment to include in a brief to the Brigade commander, who did he turn to? The NCOs in the platoon. Who did he ask to proofread said brief before submitting it to his boss? The NCOs in the platoon. So, if these Non-commissioned Officers, or NCOs, are the ones getting the job done and indeed training these officers, who may become “Leaders of Industry” in the civilian world, why do not more Non-commissioned Officer programs exist in the corporate world?
Part of the problem is that Non-commissioned Officers are just that…Non-commissioned, that is to say, they either do not have the college degree required to receive a commission in the military or they do have the degree, but choose not to be officers. The issue is that many civilian leadership positions require a Bachelors Degree. This poses yet another interesting question…who may be a better candidate for a supervisory position in a civilian job, based off of education and experience…the E-5 with a few college credits who has successfully led personnel, helped members of their team move up in rank, and maintained equipment worth astronomical amounts of money for 6 or 7 years, or the 1LT who did some of the same things for 4 years? If the concern is that these enlisted leaders are not well-rounded or “formally educated” enough, then this speaks even more to the need for NCO development programs to help address those concerns and fine tune these proven leaders’ potential in a corporate setting.
I still refer to one company who is looking at this qualified candidate pool. Safeway, a grocery chain in the Western U.S. and Canada, has supported employment of veterans through its JMO/NCO Program. In 2012, Safeway hired nearly 1,500 veterans, including over 1,300 of them in the company's retail stores. Safeway has also committed to hiring at least another 1,500 veterans by the end of 2013.
"We saw an opportunity to recruit new kinds of leaders who will become an important and critical part of our future," said Larree Renda, Safeway’s executive vice president. "Our JMO and NCO recruiting program officially launched in 2010. We accept applicants who have been officers or Non-commissioned Officers in the military and place them in an accelerated leadership program." Graduates qualify for store manager and assistant manager jobs and a range of other manager-level positions in the distribution and backstage departments at Safeway. Additionally, Safeway’s salaries for these positions are not shabby. According to Glassdoor.com, the average total compensation for an assistant manager is $57,214, while store managers’ total pay averages $88,632. If Safeway, and a few other companies, are open-minded enough to acknowledge that NCOs can contribute to the success of the organization in management positions, why don’t other companies?
So, what are the solutions? Yes, “civilianizing” accomplishments and potential on the resume will help separating/retiring enlisted leaders, but only if employers are willing to start recognizing that practical and proven leadership experience should be looked upon in a positive light, just like the college degree. Secondly, NCOs should seek out higher education while serving. The money is there, and best of all, it is free in most cases. Thirdly, companies should continue to hire Veterans into talent acquisition positions. Veterans that recruit for a company have an outlook that those who have never served could not understand and know what NCOs can offer a company. Also, establish programs that hone in on those enlisted leaders who can and have led in high-stress situations, but may not have sought out college education.
My hope is that more companies learn that JMOs are not the only capable leaders leaving the military, nor are they the only educated leaders leaving the military. For example, I am a Non-commissioned Officer in the United States Army with a Bachelor of Arts in Communication and a Master of Science in Information Technology Management. I have more education than every JMO in my unit and more leadership experience, both in the Army and private sector. Is it fair to say that I can handle a management level position in corporate America?
In the Army, we say "NCOs Lead the Way". I hope corporate America begins to notice how true this is.
Transition
Employment
ETS/EAS
NCOs
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 14
5
5
0
SGT (Join to see) I think it depends. I don't think so.
The are issues with rank, branch and skills, and certifications and education. Education matters on the outside more than what you did in the Army.
In my branch, NCOs are the life blood... we are squad based branch. But, the Army and the outside are not always one in the same.
But, when you get out, it depends on what rank you are, if you are being hired by companies that understand the military. Colonels go to different jobs, generally, than LTCs, MAJs, or Captains. Similarly, the same holds true for NCOs. A SSG or SGT getting out, is not the same as a CSM, or a CSM who worked at the nominative level. That said, many employers are not familiar with the military or the rank structure, so education and leadership experience matter most.
The other thing that matters, is what do you do the in Army... some jobs have utility on the outside, some do not. Some jobs come with certifications, that are applicable on the outside. Some jobs, honestly have few transferable skills, aside from general leadership and management. (eg. You are a Infantry, Airborne Ranger (etc) SFC/1SG, no college, and you retire/or medically retired... what will you do? What can your really offer? I have seen more than one like that around here... that have few options.)
I know retired CSMs who senior level managers and corporate leaders, and I know a senior officers who can't find jobs... So, it depends.
That said, I believe five things about transitioning.
1. The more education you have, the better... More is better - both traditional education and certifications for jobs you are seeking. AA is not really a big deal, nor is BS in recent times... It seems we are becoming a Masters based hiring world... The school you go to, matters to. And don't tell me you don't have time. If it matters, you find time. I have seen plenty of NCOs who deploy repeatedly... and find the time... if it matters.
2. When leaving (before leaving), you have to make a decision. Do you want location, or as money as you can make. That drives many things, and these are often not synonymous.
3. Many military folks have a sense of entitlement and believe they deserve more, and are qualified to do more than they are. No one owes you a thing, nor do they need you. You need them.
4. Networking and connections matter. Your reputation matters. A good reputation, built over a career will open many doors. While a bad reputation is hard to fix; impossible. Many jobs (most, I think) are obtained through your networking contacts, and based on your reputation. (eg. The job I have, and the jobs I was considering were all based on contacts, and my reputation... People asking me to do things.)
5. Last, considering all I said above, you need to be happy first and foremost; in and out of the Army. After 33 years in the Army, I was looking to do something different, with less stress, hours, etc... Responsibility wears on you.. I am still responsible, but it is different. I could have made more money elsewhere... lots more, but it is not always about the money. I received an offer I couldn't refuse, and all things considered, it was the best option for me and my family.
I hope that was helpful. Good Luck!!! Thanks for your service, your comments, and your continued service.
CSM Michael J. Uhlig COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Yinon Weiss
The are issues with rank, branch and skills, and certifications and education. Education matters on the outside more than what you did in the Army.
In my branch, NCOs are the life blood... we are squad based branch. But, the Army and the outside are not always one in the same.
But, when you get out, it depends on what rank you are, if you are being hired by companies that understand the military. Colonels go to different jobs, generally, than LTCs, MAJs, or Captains. Similarly, the same holds true for NCOs. A SSG or SGT getting out, is not the same as a CSM, or a CSM who worked at the nominative level. That said, many employers are not familiar with the military or the rank structure, so education and leadership experience matter most.
The other thing that matters, is what do you do the in Army... some jobs have utility on the outside, some do not. Some jobs come with certifications, that are applicable on the outside. Some jobs, honestly have few transferable skills, aside from general leadership and management. (eg. You are a Infantry, Airborne Ranger (etc) SFC/1SG, no college, and you retire/or medically retired... what will you do? What can your really offer? I have seen more than one like that around here... that have few options.)
I know retired CSMs who senior level managers and corporate leaders, and I know a senior officers who can't find jobs... So, it depends.
That said, I believe five things about transitioning.
1. The more education you have, the better... More is better - both traditional education and certifications for jobs you are seeking. AA is not really a big deal, nor is BS in recent times... It seems we are becoming a Masters based hiring world... The school you go to, matters to. And don't tell me you don't have time. If it matters, you find time. I have seen plenty of NCOs who deploy repeatedly... and find the time... if it matters.
2. When leaving (before leaving), you have to make a decision. Do you want location, or as money as you can make. That drives many things, and these are often not synonymous.
3. Many military folks have a sense of entitlement and believe they deserve more, and are qualified to do more than they are. No one owes you a thing, nor do they need you. You need them.
4. Networking and connections matter. Your reputation matters. A good reputation, built over a career will open many doors. While a bad reputation is hard to fix; impossible. Many jobs (most, I think) are obtained through your networking contacts, and based on your reputation. (eg. The job I have, and the jobs I was considering were all based on contacts, and my reputation... People asking me to do things.)
5. Last, considering all I said above, you need to be happy first and foremost; in and out of the Army. After 33 years in the Army, I was looking to do something different, with less stress, hours, etc... Responsibility wears on you.. I am still responsible, but it is different. I could have made more money elsewhere... lots more, but it is not always about the money. I received an offer I couldn't refuse, and all things considered, it was the best option for me and my family.
I hope that was helpful. Good Luck!!! Thanks for your service, your comments, and your continued service.
CSM Michael J. Uhlig COL Mikel J. Burroughs LTC Yinon Weiss
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Yes, I believe we are. We're not in command positions or authority, but it isn't uncommon to see an NCO do the duties an officer would be expected to be doing.
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This is highly dependent on who the employer is. I've seen companies like Farmers, Eaton, Randstad, and Time Warner Cable who highly regard NCO experience. When I talk to recruiters who don't know what an NCO is, I mention that these are the technical experts, leaders, and overall backbone of the US military. I've been pleased to see that there is an increasing number of employers who desire this experience. Joseph Wong Lucas Buck LT George Bernloehr SFC Chad Sowash Michelle Titus
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SGT (Join to see)
Capt Brandon Charters I agree. Some companies are getting it. We just have to increase the number. People like Joseph Wong get it, which helps.
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Michelle Titus
Farmers loves talking with military about Agency Ownership opportunities as well as corporate positions within the company. We as a company value the ethics, skills, and leadership qualities that you bring to the table.
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Lucas Buck
I think something important to remember is the ability to translating military skills into the civilian world. I think the civilian world struggles just as much as the Military, to properly convey and communicate what exactly it is they excel. Really take the time, maybe practice in front of a mirror, giving your elevator speech. You worked on helicopters? Great. Maybe to the outside world that sounds "cool" but, how will that help me at my company? "I worked on $100 million Blackhawks daily, I was entrusted with some of America's most treasured and protected assets. It was up to me to ensure whoever was going to fly that thing was going to be safe. I can focus like no other and I won't stop until the job's is done." Remember to separate yourself and be memorable. If anything, be memorable. Why should I hire you? I know you were infantry but, how does that help you today? Of course we're happy to help! Translating Military skills to Civilian employment isn't that difficult... just make sure you take the time to really lay out and think how you can explain to the non-Military folk what it is you did. Those in this forum understand what you did, but Tom the HR Rep that you're interviewing with has no idea. Brag about yourself!
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SFC Chad Sowash
Overall, YES. In general, hiring companies do not even understand the basic composition of the U.S. Military. Often times when I state 84% of the military is enlisted, it's usually followed by "I never knew" or the question "Why?"... When a company is truly committed in hiring transitioning military, NG, Reservists and veterans they focus on the community and start to better understand it's composition and what the different groups within the community can provide.
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