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Hi, I have been airborne for a year now and I see it is not for me. I have always seen it wasn’t for me since I came to my duty station. I’ve talked to my 1SG and she said she can’t drop me because there is nothing physically wrong with me. Please don’t hassle me about wasting a spot. I don’t see the army as a career so I am all ears on how to drop airborne. Please do not ask why I do NOT want to be airborne anymore, I just would like to get information on how to drop it. No I will not “tuff it out” and finish the remaining 2 years. I will not stay apart of something that doesn’t make me happy, this is how people become depressed and suicidal(no I am neither).
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 15
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SPC (Join to see) I almost feel sorry for you. Almost. But, you signed the dotted line, you agreed to go airborne. Still, there *is* such a thing as buyer's remorse, and I would feel bad for you if you realized this wasn't for you and were expressing that sincerely. But you are not - you have a bad attitude. You agreed to perform a service, but now are asking about how to avoid fulfilling your obligation. You are asking for help, but dictating the terms of the help you receive. And then, you compound all of that by trying to play a FALSE pre-emptive mental health card.
I hate to tell you, but you need to hear it. Happiness is a choice. Airborne status (or being removed from it) does not "make" you happy. Being in the Army (or ETSing) does not "make" you happy. You conflate enjoyment with happiness, when the two are COMPLETELY separate entities. You do not enjoy being Airborne, fine. That doesn't make you unhappy. Your refusal to find the best it has to offer, to find fulfillment in what you are doing, and to enjoy the unique camaraderie that comes in an airborne unit are making you unhappy.
And even THEN, that is not how people become depressed and suicidal. Depression is a mental illness with a complex definition and causation which, frankly, I am not qualified to define (and I am willing to wager you are not, either). But depression is NOT simply unhappiness, or even SEVERE unhappiness. It is much more complex than that and (believe it or not) unhappiness isn't even really part of depression. You can actually be depressed and happy at the same time!
Depression and suicide are serious issues, and every leader worth their salt takes them very seriously. However, that does not mean you get to play the "depression" card (or the "I will become depressed and suicidal" card) just to get your way. That is DANGEROUS for both you and your peers who may be silently struggling. Do NOT be the girl who cried wolf.
I have battled with severe chronic depression for 30 years. I *have* attempted suicide, I *have* been an inpatient. With the help of therapy and medication, plus a sense of purpose and dedication, I pulled my stuff together. I had a REALLY great run for about 16 years (the first 14 years of my career, plus 2 years prior) where it affected me only nominally. Then I got blown up, and I don't know whether the concussion shook something loose or whatnot, but things started getting to me more, and I backslid. I *have* spent more time than I prefer in therapy, but I am now mostly OK, as long as I continue to take my meds twice a day, every day. Mostly. And my case is actually pretty manageable - there are others far worse off than me. So, when you try to pre-emptively claim that you might become depressed, or try to explain that not getting your way like whiny toddler is what makes people depressed, it REALLY pisses me off. Not only are you being a whiny little (expletive deleted), you are FALSELY playing a mental health card, and also creating FALSE mental health propaganda. STOP IT. There is already enough stigma around mental health and around seeking help, I refuse to allow you to create MORE stigma with your girl who cried wolf BS.
You said you won't "tuff it out?" Well, based on your displayed attitude, all I can say is "tough titties." Suck it up and try, even if only for a couple years, to actually be worthy of the title "Soldier." Right now, you appear to be failing.
(And I am sorry if this post doesn't make you happy. Tough titties.)
I hate to tell you, but you need to hear it. Happiness is a choice. Airborne status (or being removed from it) does not "make" you happy. Being in the Army (or ETSing) does not "make" you happy. You conflate enjoyment with happiness, when the two are COMPLETELY separate entities. You do not enjoy being Airborne, fine. That doesn't make you unhappy. Your refusal to find the best it has to offer, to find fulfillment in what you are doing, and to enjoy the unique camaraderie that comes in an airborne unit are making you unhappy.
And even THEN, that is not how people become depressed and suicidal. Depression is a mental illness with a complex definition and causation which, frankly, I am not qualified to define (and I am willing to wager you are not, either). But depression is NOT simply unhappiness, or even SEVERE unhappiness. It is much more complex than that and (believe it or not) unhappiness isn't even really part of depression. You can actually be depressed and happy at the same time!
Depression and suicide are serious issues, and every leader worth their salt takes them very seriously. However, that does not mean you get to play the "depression" card (or the "I will become depressed and suicidal" card) just to get your way. That is DANGEROUS for both you and your peers who may be silently struggling. Do NOT be the girl who cried wolf.
I have battled with severe chronic depression for 30 years. I *have* attempted suicide, I *have* been an inpatient. With the help of therapy and medication, plus a sense of purpose and dedication, I pulled my stuff together. I had a REALLY great run for about 16 years (the first 14 years of my career, plus 2 years prior) where it affected me only nominally. Then I got blown up, and I don't know whether the concussion shook something loose or whatnot, but things started getting to me more, and I backslid. I *have* spent more time than I prefer in therapy, but I am now mostly OK, as long as I continue to take my meds twice a day, every day. Mostly. And my case is actually pretty manageable - there are others far worse off than me. So, when you try to pre-emptively claim that you might become depressed, or try to explain that not getting your way like whiny toddler is what makes people depressed, it REALLY pisses me off. Not only are you being a whiny little (expletive deleted), you are FALSELY playing a mental health card, and also creating FALSE mental health propaganda. STOP IT. There is already enough stigma around mental health and around seeking help, I refuse to allow you to create MORE stigma with your girl who cried wolf BS.
You said you won't "tuff it out?" Well, based on your displayed attitude, all I can say is "tough titties." Suck it up and try, even if only for a couple years, to actually be worthy of the title "Soldier." Right now, you appear to be failing.
(And I am sorry if this post doesn't make you happy. Tough titties.)
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PO2 Ron Gunsolus
you were far more gracious than he deserves... guys probably gonna sport a man bun soon as he gets out.
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Once a quiter, always a quiter. I hope this attitude does not follow you in civilian life. Good luck.
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SGT Timothy Stuart
SPC (Join to see) you being so ready to quit will lead to that depression as well. Hard to feel fulfilled when you don’t strive to get through adversity.
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4187 to request to drop it. You can expect UCMJ to follow it because you agreed to perform 3 years on airborne duty. You will also lose your wings.
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SGM Erik Marquez
Unless I have the wrong update version, the current Airborne statement has the following "Upon successful completion of airborne training, I agree to complete a minimum of 12 months in airborne status. I may not voluntarily terminate my airborne status unless physically disqualified."
So an SM must remain on status 12 months before requesting voluntary termination.
However, AR 614-200 states in part
"(6) Have enough service remaining on current enlistment to complete at least 12 months of service after airborne training. "
and
"j. Soldiers desiring to terminate their airborne status may submit a request to terminate through their chain of command stating their desire to be removed from airborne duty and that they do not desire future airborne status.
(1) If the Soldier has served 36 months or longer in current airborne assignment, the GCMCA will approve the request and direct removal from airborne status to include withdrawal of SQI "P." Approval authority may be delegated as local GCMCA dictates.
(2) If the Soldier has served less than 36 months in current airborne duty assignment, airborne status may not be terminated unless the GCMCA approves the request.
(3) Approved airborne termination requests wij. Soldiers desiring to terminate their airborne status may submit a request to terminate through their chain of command
stating their desire to be removed from airborne duty and that they do not desire future airborne status."
If the Airborne training was part of an enlistment there may be a 36 month requirement in the contract, but I don't see it in a quick search..of USAREC Regulation 601-210
Personnel Procurement Enlistment & Accessions Processing
Enlistment / Reenlistment is not, nor ever was a subject I did more than needed to care for my SM's so Im not an expert in the topic by any means.
SFC (Join to see) would be better informed than I for sure.
"c. Airborne Training Option.
(1) This option guarantees training in the basic airborne qualification course and a possible assignment to a unit listed in REQUEST, if airborne qualifications are maintained. (Unassigned airborne reservations do not guarantee an assignment to an airborne unit. Temporary reservations can be made prior to an airborne screening/ inspection.)
(2) GCs will ensure all applicants enlisting for the airborne option have passed the airborne screening/ inspection by the CMO prior to DEP/DTP-in.
NOTE: Applicants with an approved USAREC medical waiver and are airborne qualified by the CMO are qualified for the airborne option.
So an SM must remain on status 12 months before requesting voluntary termination.
However, AR 614-200 states in part
"(6) Have enough service remaining on current enlistment to complete at least 12 months of service after airborne training. "
and
"j. Soldiers desiring to terminate their airborne status may submit a request to terminate through their chain of command stating their desire to be removed from airborne duty and that they do not desire future airborne status.
(1) If the Soldier has served 36 months or longer in current airborne assignment, the GCMCA will approve the request and direct removal from airborne status to include withdrawal of SQI "P." Approval authority may be delegated as local GCMCA dictates.
(2) If the Soldier has served less than 36 months in current airborne duty assignment, airborne status may not be terminated unless the GCMCA approves the request.
(3) Approved airborne termination requests wij. Soldiers desiring to terminate their airborne status may submit a request to terminate through their chain of command
stating their desire to be removed from airborne duty and that they do not desire future airborne status."
If the Airborne training was part of an enlistment there may be a 36 month requirement in the contract, but I don't see it in a quick search..of USAREC Regulation 601-210
Personnel Procurement Enlistment & Accessions Processing
Enlistment / Reenlistment is not, nor ever was a subject I did more than needed to care for my SM's so Im not an expert in the topic by any means.
SFC (Join to see) would be better informed than I for sure.
"c. Airborne Training Option.
(1) This option guarantees training in the basic airborne qualification course and a possible assignment to a unit listed in REQUEST, if airborne qualifications are maintained. (Unassigned airborne reservations do not guarantee an assignment to an airborne unit. Temporary reservations can be made prior to an airborne screening/ inspection.)
(2) GCs will ensure all applicants enlisting for the airborne option have passed the airborne screening/ inspection by the CMO prior to DEP/DTP-in.
NOTE: Applicants with an approved USAREC medical waiver and are airborne qualified by the CMO are qualified for the airborne option.
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SFC (Join to see)
SGM Erik Marquez that is one hundred percent correct. It doesn't mention the UCMJ part in the regulation. That part is mentioned EPMD Airborne volunteer statement email you received as part of the levy process. It says, you are on assignment to an airborne position and must serve on jump status 36 months. If you sign an Airborne acceptance statement with the intent I'm dropping Airborne status you may be subject to UCMJ.
Ultimately, it is at the discretion of the commander exercising GCMA, but I know that at the 82nd and 18th Airborne Corps standing policy was field grade UCMJ
Ultimately, it is at the discretion of the commander exercising GCMA, but I know that at the 82nd and 18th Airborne Corps standing policy was field grade UCMJ
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SGM Erik Marquez
SFC (Join to see) - Interesting, and thanks
Though confusing as well.
The reg (as cited) clearly states there 36 months is the "normal" time but those with less are free to ask after 12 months.
So the regulation that guides the process says its ok to ask after 12 months but a letter from EPMD contradicts that?
and "If you sign an Airborne acceptance statement with the intent I'm dropping Airborne status you may be subject to UCMJ."
Reads to me much differently than its being applied here (not saying my interpretation is correct or not)
To me "If you sign an Airborne acceptance statement with the intent" would apply if an SM signed an Airborne volunteer statement with the intent of requesting to terminate once they reach Ft Bragg; like "I wanted to be near my home in NC, so I did this to get assigned to Bragg" kind of thing..that would be taking the assignment with intent to terminate.
If this is that for this OP's question, I'm not reading it that way.
Request to terminate comes to from many reasons. (I'm not telling you Jason anything you don't know..I get that)
No one knows what it is like to start the assembly process and do pre jump at 22:30 for a jump with a first light TOT, until they have done it.
No one knows what it is like to do a real MASS-TAC at night until they have done it.
Or done a night BN jump, humped chute to the turn in point, then humped to the assigned position on the DZ and waited in the cold for HOURS for the mission to end.
One one of those may be more than a previously motivated Airborne 5 jump newbie is willing or able to handle, pushing them to ask for voluntary termination or a combo or well anything
Though confusing as well.
The reg (as cited) clearly states there 36 months is the "normal" time but those with less are free to ask after 12 months.
So the regulation that guides the process says its ok to ask after 12 months but a letter from EPMD contradicts that?
and "If you sign an Airborne acceptance statement with the intent I'm dropping Airborne status you may be subject to UCMJ."
Reads to me much differently than its being applied here (not saying my interpretation is correct or not)
To me "If you sign an Airborne acceptance statement with the intent" would apply if an SM signed an Airborne volunteer statement with the intent of requesting to terminate once they reach Ft Bragg; like "I wanted to be near my home in NC, so I did this to get assigned to Bragg" kind of thing..that would be taking the assignment with intent to terminate.
If this is that for this OP's question, I'm not reading it that way.
Request to terminate comes to from many reasons. (I'm not telling you Jason anything you don't know..I get that)
No one knows what it is like to start the assembly process and do pre jump at 22:30 for a jump with a first light TOT, until they have done it.
No one knows what it is like to do a real MASS-TAC at night until they have done it.
Or done a night BN jump, humped chute to the turn in point, then humped to the assigned position on the DZ and waited in the cold for HOURS for the mission to end.
One one of those may be more than a previously motivated Airborne 5 jump newbie is willing or able to handle, pushing them to ask for voluntary termination or a combo or well anything
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SFC (Join to see)
SGM Erik Marquez they don't contradict each other, the EPMD letter is just a warning not to commit to something in bad faith. It's still the choice of the commander to process UCMJ, the regulation doesn't ever require that a Soldier be processed for UCMJ. The Commander has to use their best judgment as to whether or not UCMJ is in the best interest of the Army and the unit to prevent others from arbitrarily dropping their status, or if it's in the best interest of the Army to get that person off status. Even when they come off status they usually end up staying at the unit as a NAP until they PCS or ETS.
The reg allows the person to request to drop it after 12 months, but doesn't state they will be free of consequences for dropping it. As with most things, Commanders have the discretion advocate for their Soldiers if they feel its not in the best of the Army or that it doesn't meet the intention of the policy. But in this case, this is exactly why there is/was a policy at the 82nd and 18th Airborne Corps that uninjured troopers dropping status prior to completing three years will receive UCMJ. I get that it's a hard job and rucking 12 miles in the middle of the night after a mass tac sucks, but being in any other BCT with a high optempo sucks as well, but those people can't quit. The Soldier is still going to be doing everything with the unit except stepping out the paratroop door
The reg allows the person to request to drop it after 12 months, but doesn't state they will be free of consequences for dropping it. As with most things, Commanders have the discretion advocate for their Soldiers if they feel its not in the best of the Army or that it doesn't meet the intention of the policy. But in this case, this is exactly why there is/was a policy at the 82nd and 18th Airborne Corps that uninjured troopers dropping status prior to completing three years will receive UCMJ. I get that it's a hard job and rucking 12 miles in the middle of the night after a mass tac sucks, but being in any other BCT with a high optempo sucks as well, but those people can't quit. The Soldier is still going to be doing everything with the unit except stepping out the paratroop door
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