Posted on Oct 6, 2020
Do leaders check their subordinates' uniforms before they go to the NCO board to check if they are proper?
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My son went to the NCO board and failed. One reason I don't agree with the other I question. He was told he did not have the ribbons or hash mark on his sleeve and the ribbons ,he didn't know he should have. My question is. Doesn't the Sgt. check there uniforms before going to the board to check if he is proper? And if not how does he find out about these ribbons or even the hash mark? Apparently there was no mention in his file. Because they added it while he was in front of the board. And they said his weight to height ratio was n/g even though he passes all the PT tests? this one I don't agree with he's off about 5-10 lbs maybe. His company goes through Sgts. at a rapid pace. [discharge- transfers ect.]. And no one noticed about a hash mark I thought was for 4yrs. of service apparently it's for 3yrs, of service.? Why wasn't he informed?
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Promotion Board
Promotion Board
Posted 4 y ago
Responses: 16
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Because he is attending a promotion board to evaluate his potential for promotion, he is expected to have some responsibility for learning these things himself. He has access to his ERB any time he chooses by logging in on a computer. It’s common knowledge, especially for someone with three years in the Army, that your uniform should match your ERB. His sponsor should have checked his uniform, but it is ultimately his uniform, his record, and his responsibility. The pre inspection that most NCOs do is to make sure your uniform is assembled correctly. In order to catch his deficiencies the NCO would have needed to print off the Soldiers ERB and check all his ribbons against that. There is no guarantee the NCO that sponsored him was even his NCO, and not someone who was assigned to sponsor him at the last minute.
As for personal responsibility, we have regulations that are easy to search, easy to access and easy to read when it comes to uniforms. He also has access to his NCOs to request one of them look at his uniform ahead of time. I am a Senior NCO and I still have another NCO look at my uniform any time soon have a board. The purpose of the board is to assess promotion potential, and if a Soldier needs to be babysat to pass the board, then they are not ready to be an NCO. As an NCO “Nobody told me” is not an acceptable excuse. Promotion is for the best performing and most competitive.
I believe your son is not giving you the whole story on many of these scenarios. We do not have a HT/WT ratio in the Army. We have body fat percentage. If he failed his last tape test he would be flagged and ineligible to attend the board in the first place.
Your son can fix his uniform and attend the promotion board next month. A lot of Soldiers fail the board the first time, it’s not a career ending failure, he won’t be flagged, there are no negative consequences for him. It’s a learning experience. Now he knows to get into the regulation and find the knowledge he needs and he can do the same for his Soldiers when he becomes an NCO
As for personal responsibility, we have regulations that are easy to search, easy to access and easy to read when it comes to uniforms. He also has access to his NCOs to request one of them look at his uniform ahead of time. I am a Senior NCO and I still have another NCO look at my uniform any time soon have a board. The purpose of the board is to assess promotion potential, and if a Soldier needs to be babysat to pass the board, then they are not ready to be an NCO. As an NCO “Nobody told me” is not an acceptable excuse. Promotion is for the best performing and most competitive.
I believe your son is not giving you the whole story on many of these scenarios. We do not have a HT/WT ratio in the Army. We have body fat percentage. If he failed his last tape test he would be flagged and ineligible to attend the board in the first place.
Your son can fix his uniform and attend the promotion board next month. A lot of Soldiers fail the board the first time, it’s not a career ending failure, he won’t be flagged, there are no negative consequences for him. It’s a learning experience. Now he knows to get into the regulation and find the knowledge he needs and he can do the same for his Soldiers when he becomes an NCO
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SFC (Join to see)
LCpl Sandy Moran the Soldier had the opportunity to ask other NCOs for help. Now he knows to ask someone else for help next month. Everyone who appears before a board has a sponsor. It should be their first line leader, but that person isn’t always available. Every Soldier is required to appear before the promotion board when they are eligible for promotion. They do not have a choice.
What I’m mostly hearing is that you think it’s not fair or that your son was treated unfairly. Your son was treated in accordance with all the rules and regulations of the promotion board and afforded all the opportunities required of his leadership to afford him. Namely, he was afforded the opportunity to appear before a promotion board and display to his leaders that he is ready for promotion. He was not ready for promotion, and could not show his leaders, the CSM and the other 1SGs that he has the situational awareness and experience necessary to be a leader.
What I’m mostly hearing is that you think it’s not fair or that your son was treated unfairly. Your son was treated in accordance with all the rules and regulations of the promotion board and afforded all the opportunities required of his leadership to afford him. Namely, he was afforded the opportunity to appear before a promotion board and display to his leaders that he is ready for promotion. He was not ready for promotion, and could not show his leaders, the CSM and the other 1SGs that he has the situational awareness and experience necessary to be a leader.
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LCpl Sandy Moran
Didn't know it was mandatory I think unfairly only because of the differences in time off off study. Big difference. Uniform on him weight on him. study/prep on them.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
LCpl Sandy Moran I have appeared before multiple boards. As a Soldier or NCO being boarded, and as a sponsor. I have sat on boards as a voting member, recommending promotion or not, or (for Soldier of the month / NCO of the month) awarding points for performance. I have chaired /run boards. Everything SFC (Join to see) has told you is spot on.
The study / prep is ALSO on the Soldier. Unless he was told the day of the board that je was going to the board in a couple of hours, or he was told the day before when he also happened to be on 24 hour duty, he had time to prep his uniform. He had time to double check his ERB and make sure it was accurate - and that his uniform matched. He even had time to study. Obviously the more warning he had, the more study time he had.
But the argument that he wasn't given "on duty" time to study and that is the unit's fault is pure BS. It is HIS promotion, it is HIS responsibility to prepare. If that means staying in at night and hitting the books (manuals / regs) instead of going to the club or the movies, then that is what it means. He had a chance to prove he wanted to be promoted. He instead proved that he did not. That is not on the unit, not on his leaders, and not on the Army. It is on him. Period.
The study / prep is ALSO on the Soldier. Unless he was told the day of the board that je was going to the board in a couple of hours, or he was told the day before when he also happened to be on 24 hour duty, he had time to prep his uniform. He had time to double check his ERB and make sure it was accurate - and that his uniform matched. He even had time to study. Obviously the more warning he had, the more study time he had.
But the argument that he wasn't given "on duty" time to study and that is the unit's fault is pure BS. It is HIS promotion, it is HIS responsibility to prepare. If that means staying in at night and hitting the books (manuals / regs) instead of going to the club or the movies, then that is what it means. He had a chance to prove he wanted to be promoted. He instead proved that he did not. That is not on the unit, not on his leaders, and not on the Army. It is on him. Period.
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LCpl Sandy Moran
Yeah I got a feeling hev thought it was in the bag. Lesson learned Thank you for the input.
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AR 670-1 spells out the uniform. Which ribbons are missing? Sounds like all of them. He should at least have a row, yea? (Nat Def, GWOT, Army Service)
For him to be a No-Go on weight he'd also have to be a No-Go on body fat. The board just didn't look him over and say he's fat, they went off of form DA705 which includes a body fat % measurement. A soldier CAN be OVER weight but they CANNOT be over body fat %. Agree or not, he's off by body fat based on a calculation of his neck and waist measurements relative to his height and weight.
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It might have helped if he had an NCO prepare him for the board, but that No-Go on the DA-705 was pretty much going to get him anyway. His packet shouldn't have been submitted with that 705.
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At least the mother is here on Rally Point, and not actually calling the unit.
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I'd also like to call out the irony in this case about a Marine calling out the Army for being too stringent on our body weight standards.
For him to be a No-Go on weight he'd also have to be a No-Go on body fat. The board just didn't look him over and say he's fat, they went off of form DA705 which includes a body fat % measurement. A soldier CAN be OVER weight but they CANNOT be over body fat %. Agree or not, he's off by body fat based on a calculation of his neck and waist measurements relative to his height and weight.
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It might have helped if he had an NCO prepare him for the board, but that No-Go on the DA-705 was pretty much going to get him anyway. His packet shouldn't have been submitted with that 705.
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At least the mother is here on Rally Point, and not actually calling the unit.
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I'd also like to call out the irony in this case about a Marine calling out the Army for being too stringent on our body weight standards.
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LCpl Sandy Moran
Well when I was in I don't remember anyone being called out if they passed the PT test. And he was excepted with his weight because for his neck size. Know it's a no go from what he said. Its height and weight ratio. Don't know what happened? I'll ask his body fat? PS I'm male lol And I'll text the AR670-1 you mentioned thank you
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
LCpl Sandy Moran - No one is exempted from flagged for failing tape because of neck size. That's what usually screws males over - and for females our hips can screw us over.
The way it works for us is we get weighed - then it's based on your gender, age and height. So as 5'10" female at 38 I get 178 to weigh. However, I have been measured at 5'9" two years ago at school so I got 173 which I was under thankfully.
So it depends on the max weight for his gender, age and height. If he is over the max weight for that, he gets taped. If he fails the measurements for taping for body fat, that's when one gets flagged.
But our PT test and weight are two separate issues. You could max a PT test but fail ht/wt and tape and get flagged for the ht/wt. Or fail a PT test and get flagged for that but pass ht/wt. Or fail both and get flagged for both.
The way it works for us is we get weighed - then it's based on your gender, age and height. So as 5'10" female at 38 I get 178 to weigh. However, I have been measured at 5'9" two years ago at school so I got 173 which I was under thankfully.
So it depends on the max weight for his gender, age and height. If he is over the max weight for that, he gets taped. If he fails the measurements for taping for body fat, that's when one gets flagged.
But our PT test and weight are two separate issues. You could max a PT test but fail ht/wt and tape and get flagged for the ht/wt. Or fail a PT test and get flagged for that but pass ht/wt. Or fail both and get flagged for both.
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LCpl Sandy Moran
I always thought if you can pass PT test you should be good. Guess they want you to look good in uniform too. cause your fit or your not. Weight shouldn't be a factor in my opinion.
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SFC Kelly Fuerhoff
LCpl Sandy Moran - Not in the Army. You can get flagged for PT test failure or failing ht/wt, tape. Either/or or both.
Weight definitely should be a factor if someone is overweight or underweight (which you can be flagged for being underweight too). I don't think the way the Army does it is beneficial nor healthy with their antiquated body measurements. But yeah weight plays a factor in someone's health. A couple pounds over - no. But drastically over or under, yes.
Weight definitely should be a factor if someone is overweight or underweight (which you can be flagged for being underweight too). I don't think the way the Army does it is beneficial nor healthy with their antiquated body measurements. But yeah weight plays a factor in someone's health. A couple pounds over - no. But drastically over or under, yes.
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If you need an NCO to inspect your uniform before the board, or to do your research for you and regurgitate it to you like a momma bird puking knowledge into your mouth, you're clearly not ready to be an NCO.
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LCpl Sandy Moran
sometime it takes a big brother type of solider to help make you a better solider. I think you might of had one. We all could use a bit of help know and then.
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SFC Michael Hasbun
LCpl Sandy Moran you shouldn't need a "big brother/sister" for the basics. Uniforms and awards are taught at basic training. They are Private level tasks, not rocket surgery.
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Suspended Profile
SFC Michael Hasbun - Your right, however, when I was a SGT, i never let a Soldier of mine go to the board unprepared as I felt it reflected poorly on my leadership and the unit...
LCpl Sandy Moran
Col. that's what I've been talking about. Check the solider you put up work with him/her. Great that he thought of my son . But?
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