Posted on Aug 31, 2020
Peers say, I should Question my Flag? Should I really Bring this up? Is it really something to worry about?
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So, I had originally asked A questioned Similar. Which was answered and thought nothing of it after that. But, my Peers keep saying my situation as a whole makes No Sense and that I should bring this up. One had even told me that I need to IG this, to get my flag taking away.
Basically, was I in a Convey involved where one of the Trucks Rear-Ended a Waterbufflo. Commander FLAGGED, the entire Convey.
The Points they brought up was that we are on a route Well-Known to kick up large amounts of Dust even if we followed the speed limit and below. They where was very well aware that we use that route nearly everyday. And that they expected those who where not the driver and TC in the rest of the convey to continue using the same route to continue mission. Our Counseling also stated that we would still be driving trucks regardless of the flag. The Entire Convey other then Convey Command and the Driver and TC was not questioned by investigators, nor have we been informed of anything about it other then that day.
They said my command was wrong for telling me to still continue the process for PCSing, as I am supposed to PC in early September, despite the Flagg. Their are plenty of other things but its to much for this Short Post and I don't want to trail off.
Am I thinking to much, I really don't now. But, I was told I needed to get a backbone. As I am a New NCO, and that What I do now will Affect what kind of NCO I will be in the future.
Basically, was I in a Convey involved where one of the Trucks Rear-Ended a Waterbufflo. Commander FLAGGED, the entire Convey.
The Points they brought up was that we are on a route Well-Known to kick up large amounts of Dust even if we followed the speed limit and below. They where was very well aware that we use that route nearly everyday. And that they expected those who where not the driver and TC in the rest of the convey to continue using the same route to continue mission. Our Counseling also stated that we would still be driving trucks regardless of the flag. The Entire Convey other then Convey Command and the Driver and TC was not questioned by investigators, nor have we been informed of anything about it other then that day.
They said my command was wrong for telling me to still continue the process for PCSing, as I am supposed to PC in early September, despite the Flagg. Their are plenty of other things but its to much for this Short Post and I don't want to trail off.
Am I thinking to much, I really don't now. But, I was told I needed to get a backbone. As I am a New NCO, and that What I do now will Affect what kind of NCO I will be in the future.
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 3
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The part you leave out is what was your specifix role in that convoy? We're you a driver or TC? Were you in the vehicle which was rear-ended or the one rear-ending? Were you a passenger in a vehicle which came to a safe stop and did not collide with anything? These things make a big difference.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
SGT (Join to see) As a TC of a vehicle that did NOT strike anything, you may have pertinent details for the investigation regarding the actions you and your vehicle took which allowed you to travel the same route safely. You say your convoy was well spaced out, but obviously it was not well enough spaced out in at least one location.
The only way to prevent you from PCSing and keeping you available for the investigators is to place that investigation flag. It absolutely sucks. But it is a tool there to help the investigators. They SHOULD remove the flag as soon as they get all pertinent info from you, even if investigation is not yet complete.
The only way to prevent you from PCSing and keeping you available for the investigators is to place that investigation flag. It absolutely sucks. But it is a tool there to help the investigators. They SHOULD remove the flag as soon as they get all pertinent info from you, even if investigation is not yet complete.
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SGT (Join to see)
SFC Casey O'Mally Thats not the Case, the other Truck hit another units vehicle that split our Convey. But I understand where you are coming from.
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SGT (Join to see)
Sorry, I think I let out a lot of Parts while writing, I was to upset while writing. To rephrase that last part, our convey was split by another unit that had unknowingly split out Convoy due to the dust. Same goes for us we had no idea they where there, so, the other convey decided to stop without warning lights or warning Triangles in the road without pulling over. Which is why that truck rear-ended the water buffalo.
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SFC Casey O'Mally
SGT (Join to see) That makes things a lot clearer. From what you just said, based on what I know about convoy ops (which I will admit I am not an SME on, but I *have* run my share of convoys back in my time), there was a good deal wrong with the situation. Not saying that to cast blame or question decisions - I am not the IO and I was not there - just giving my perspective.
Based on the fuller understanding, IMHO what SHOULD have happened is that statements should have been taken in the first day or two after the incident. Based on those statements, key witnesses and personnel (all personnel in the vehicles involved in the collision, convoy commander of both convoys, driver and TC of vehicle immediately following the vehicle which rear-ended the buffalo, anyone whose statement adds key relevant details, off the top of my head) should have then been flagged for investigation. With your situation of not having any pertinent data which would require follow up (it was dusty, visibility was low - and everyone agrees to that), I do not believe a flag was warranted. I won't go so far to say that it CANNOT be done, because I am not JAG, and I know IOs and Commanders are both given a lot of leeway to determine how to conduct their missions. But it seems like overkill, IMHO.
Based on all of that, my recommendation would be to talk to JAG, not IG. This is honestly a question of whether or not the flag is allowable. JAG should be the SME on flags. If, as I suspect, the flag is legal, if questionable, all IG can do is ADVISE the Command that the flag may not be the best option. IG cannot actually make the Commander lift the flag. If the flag is questionable, but legal, going to IG and starting that investigation is not likely to fix the flag, but it is likely to give you a bad name.
That is just my opinion, though. You ALWAYS have the right to go to the IG if you feel that the Command is treating you unfairly. Please do NOT let me or anyone else convince you that you are not allowed to go see them.
Based on the fuller understanding, IMHO what SHOULD have happened is that statements should have been taken in the first day or two after the incident. Based on those statements, key witnesses and personnel (all personnel in the vehicles involved in the collision, convoy commander of both convoys, driver and TC of vehicle immediately following the vehicle which rear-ended the buffalo, anyone whose statement adds key relevant details, off the top of my head) should have then been flagged for investigation. With your situation of not having any pertinent data which would require follow up (it was dusty, visibility was low - and everyone agrees to that), I do not believe a flag was warranted. I won't go so far to say that it CANNOT be done, because I am not JAG, and I know IOs and Commanders are both given a lot of leeway to determine how to conduct their missions. But it seems like overkill, IMHO.
Based on all of that, my recommendation would be to talk to JAG, not IG. This is honestly a question of whether or not the flag is allowable. JAG should be the SME on flags. If, as I suspect, the flag is legal, if questionable, all IG can do is ADVISE the Command that the flag may not be the best option. IG cannot actually make the Commander lift the flag. If the flag is questionable, but legal, going to IG and starting that investigation is not likely to fix the flag, but it is likely to give you a bad name.
That is just my opinion, though. You ALWAYS have the right to go to the IG if you feel that the Command is treating you unfairly. Please do NOT let me or anyone else convince you that you are not allowed to go see them.
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To Note, the Driver and TC have it worse. The Driver his license is being taken away permanently and he is being forced to reclass.
While the TC, was put on AWOL status, because our Leadership didn't inform his gaining unit. So they didn't do anything until his payment was taken away.
The Driver was my soldier, and he plans to voluntary retire because of it.
While the TC, was put on AWOL status, because our Leadership didn't inform his gaining unit. So they didn't do anything until his payment was taken away.
The Driver was my soldier, and he plans to voluntary retire because of it.
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