Posted on Feb 10, 2014
SSgt George Brown
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Would you go against the constitutional rights of the US if called upon to do it?



Posted in these groups: 2nd amendment logo 2nd Amendment
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Responses: 15
LTC Paul Labrador
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<p>I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign OR domestic.....</p><p><br></p><p>Things would have to go seriously (and I mean SERIOUSLY) awry in our nation for me to have to decide if shooting US citizens or&nbsp;US soldiers constitutes that part of my Oath.&nbsp;&nbsp;I do not envy the guys&nbsp;who had to decide which side they would choose just prior to the Civil&nbsp;War.&nbsp;</p>
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SSgt George Brown
SSgt George Brown
11 y
Your last statement is a really tough one, indeed.
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SSG(P) Casualty Operations Ncoic
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Oathkeeper
<p>It depends on the situation.&nbsp; If armed civilians are defending their homes, families, and their Constitutional rights (2nd Amendment, or Article 2 of the Bill of Rights) and are not posing a clear threat to Military forces or lawful/Constitutional operations, then there is no way that I would blindly follow orders to gun down innocent civilians.</p><p><br></p><p>On the other hand, if taken under fire, or ordered to neutralize a threat force&nbsp;intending on&nbsp;harming innocent civilians and/or Military personnel, I would not hesitate to terminate that threat as quickly as possible, with maximum violence using any and all assets at my disposal.&nbsp; Once someone takes action to illegally harm or kill others, they become combatants.&nbsp; But until/unless that happens, Americans defending their families and their rights are NOT the enemy.</p><p><br></p><p>As one whose family (Matlack) was instrumental in the creation of this nation, I cannot deny the patriot thought that is quite literally in my DNA.&nbsp; I will NOT turn my back on our history nor those who have sacrificed to make and&nbsp;keep us all free.&nbsp; George Washington was understandably afraid of standing armies.&nbsp; This is why the Second Amendment was put in place.&nbsp; A government should fear its people, as it keeps them honest.&nbsp; When The People fear the government, we have Tyranny.</p><p><br></p><p>As a Soldier who has raised his hand three times now and has sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, I cannot overlook and obey&nbsp;illegal, immoral, and/or unconstitutional orders of the president or the Officers appointed over me.&nbsp; I take my oath seriously, as I do the Soldiers Creed and the Creed of the Noncommissioned Officer.&nbsp; If you are doing this job SOLELY for a paycheck, and will blindly follow orders regardless of their legality, morality, or Constitutionality, then you are quite simply a mercenary.&nbsp; The day that our Army, DoD, and country ONLY wants mercenaries in the ranks is the day I will resign.</p><p><br></p><p>If you, as an American Servicemember, would fire upon American citizens without cause JUST because someone ordered you to, then you have made yourself an enemy of the US Constitution.&nbsp; The "I was just following orders" defense did not work for the Nazis in Nuremburg, and it didn't work for LT Callie at My Lai.&nbsp; Many (especially the younger Soldiers) forget that illegal/immoral orders are NOT to be obeyed,&nbsp; As we as leaders tell our subordinates, we all must take the hard right over the easy wrong.&nbsp; Everyone would do well to remember that.</p>
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SSG Training Room Ncoic
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Edited 11 y ago
I believe this will become a more constant scenario and question brought up in talks in the coming days. I believe personally in the Oath in which I took which states " I, ____ do solemnly swear(or affirm) that I will support defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God." In this case according to the Second- Amendment which only covers the right to " Keep and Bear Arms". So I would not engage a U.S. Citizens with hostile force unless said Citizens endangered the personnel under my charge. To answer this simply I would not engage  Citizens just because someone in charge had the bright idea that they could impose their will through force on the Citizens who are just utilizing Constitutional Rights. 
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CPT Intelligence Exercise Planner
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11 y

SGT McMullan,

 

I also believe in the oath that I took but it differs from the oath of enlistment that you quoted.  An officer's oath reads:

 

"I do sloemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemis, foreign and domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God."

 

The officer's oath says nothing about obeying "the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me."  Obviously, we all do obey these orders but if those orders are unconstitutional, we are not only supposed to disobey them, we are supposed to intervene against them to defend those "words on a piece of paper" as someone posted here.

 

Our government drives its power EXCLUSIVELY from the constitution and, if they should decide to violate it, it is the sworn duty of the officers of the United States Military to remove those violators from the government.  That is a large part of the "domestic" enemies phrase.

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CPT Multifunctional Logistician
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11 y
Well spoken CPT McCormick! We swear to support and defend the Constitution, and a part of that sworn duty is to disobey unlawful orders.  But to defend the Constitution, we must first fully understand what it is and what it means.  And it goes much further than just words on paper.  The rights that the Constitution describes and protects are natural and unalienable - meaning we have those rights simply because we EXIST - not because someone gave them to us. 
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CPT Intelligence Exercise Planner
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CPT Johnson, I completely agree.  my "word on a piece of paper" quote was intended to come across as a bit sarcastic.  I believe the U.S. Constitution to be one of the finest legal documents ever written.  It is the foundation that has guided our nation for over 220 years and, so long as we don't 'interpret' it into impotence, can guide us for centuries to come. 
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