Posted on Feb 3, 2014
SFC PATRIOT Launching Station Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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What do you consider mass punishment.  Do to recent events the question has been raised and in an attempt to find the regulation governing this I came up dry.  So my question is what is considered mass punishment vs special unit training, and where can I find it in the regulations?
Posted in these groups: Handcuffs 2249048b PunishmentTrain2 Training
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SSG Conex
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There are three "Golden Rules" to consider when determining appropriate Corrective Training/ Corrective Actions:

1. Non-punitive: The commander must ensure that the nature of the training or instruction is not punitive. FM 27-1 provides guidance for commanders, in that commanders must distinguish extra training from punishment, or even the appearance of punishment. 2. Time: AR 600-20, paragraph 4-6 b(1), states the training, instruction, or correction given to a Soldier to correct deficiencies must be directly related to the deficiency and should continue only until the training deficiency is overcome. 3. Procedure: Corrective training is intended to be supervised by the appropriate leaders within the command. Therefore, leaders should be present during corrective training to dispel the appearance of punishment being directed toward a Soldier. Commanders must ensure that the nature of training or instruction is not punishment.


AR 600-20, paragraph 4-6(b), states that corrective training should not be used in an "oppressive manner to evade the procedural safeguards applying to non-judicial punishment."

DON’T: A Soldier who is late for formation and is ordered to clean the orderly room after hours. This is a form of non-judicial punishment under UCMJ, Article 15, FM 27-1, Chapter 7, which also provides guidance to commanders on corrective training. The rationale is that if a Soldier perceives corrective training or instruction as punishment, all training and instruction will be degraded and their value jeopardized. DO: Leaders should use a DA Form 4856 (Developmental Counseling Form) to annotate the plan for corrective training. If the Soldier does not meet the standard the leader annotates the result and considers if this failure is for a reason that might lead to a form of non-judicial punishment. If the Soldier still fails to achieve the standard, the chain of command should assess whether the Soldier is fit for military service and may consider options for separation. The bottom line is this – There’s no more "smoke ‘em ‘til they puke." When all else fails, use the DA 4856 and ensure that "further incidents of this nature could lead to UCMJ action" is added at the end of the counseling summary. When used properly, corrective training is a valuable tool for leaders to correct shortcomings and to improve the discipline and efficiency within their units. It’s all about training Soldiers to be better Soldiers and excellent leaders. If in doubt as to whether or not the corrective training is appropriate for the circumstance, the IG recommends discussing it with your chain of command and/or legal advisor.

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SFC PATRIOT Launching Station Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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11 y
Thank you This was exactly what I was looking for 
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CPT Exchange Officer
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Edited 11 y ago

I consider Punishment to be things like Extra Duty, Papers, etc... that can be applied to an individual when they have done something wrong or are not performing to standard. These should always be accompanied by event oriented counseling statements so that a soldier can understand the expectations of them, and can set measurable goals for improvement.

 

Corrective training would be appropriate when there are across the board failures that doesn't target any specific individual. Group papers on equipment knowledge if there was across the board failures on an inspection. Extra PT for soldier's who have failed the APFT, which applies to ALL failures. Tougher PT regiment in the morning if all soldiers in the platoon/squad, etc... are underperforming.

 

Mass punishment however is immoral and has been proven to be largely ineffective. If you have 30 people in your platoon and it's only 2 individuals who are consistently underperforming or getting in trouble, how does it benefit the group as a whole to punish everyone for the actions of a few? All that does is lower morale, foster an environment of toxic leadership, and your soldiers will lose respect and trust in their leadership.

 

There will always be problem soldiers, and it's your job, and their first line leader's job to do corrective training, developmental counseling, and professional goal setting, to bring them up to snuff. However, it comes down to the individual and their determination and motivation to do better. If they don't choose to get their act together, then seperate them from the Army.

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SFC PATRIOT Launching Station Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
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Why is it that no one will respond to this post?   Scared?
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SFC A.M. Drake
SFC A.M. Drake
11 y
SSG Broadbent,<br><br>Just because a person is a SFC does not mean that rank or higher has all the answers, or presumed to know everything. What irks me is the presumption thereof. Does not the President/CEO/Owner of any large organization need effective advice from counsel/friends/experts? Lastly Im not picking sides here as the SFC can defend himself, I'm just questioning your assumption that at a particular rank one is suppose to know, maybe he has not been in for a long time? Got promoted to fast? etc etc<br>
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SFC PATRIOT Launching Station Enhanced Operator/Maintainer
SFC (Join to see)
11 y
Actually SSG Broadbent the reason the question was asked is not because I cannot distinguish, but rather looking at the fine line the same way IG does when they are called on a unit that is in question. &nbsp;The main reason for the question is that I cannot find any governing material to back up a claim. &nbsp;Thus the reason I asked for help!
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SSG Zachery Mitchell
SSG Zachery Mitchell
11 y

SSG Broadbent,

 

A SFC doesn't know everything there is to know about everything. Just the same way a SGT, or SSG or MSG or 1SG or even a CSM doesn't know everything about everything. If another NCO is asking for help from fellow NCO's and leaders you should be honored to help them. NCO's need to stick together and help each other out. Too many NCO's nowadays are too busy trying to "get ahead" or "look better" than everyone else they forget that NCOs are the BACKBONE of the Army and are here to help each other out just as much as we are here to help the Soldiers.

 

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SSG V. Michelle Woods
SSG V. Michelle Woods
11 y
SSG Broadbent is experienced and one of the best NCOs I know to go to when I need to hear the cold, hard truth. 
But on that same note, responses by fellow NCOs that criticize a question is the sole reason I left the group Lead From the Front and joined Rally Point. 

(and no I didn't sugarcoat it SSG Broadbent so don't give me crap for it!)
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