Posted on Jan 15, 2015
Should enlisted members be required to have college?
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The Air Force has had it in thier AFI on Enlisted Force Structure for years that enlisted members must pursue on and off duty education and had recently made an Associates Degree is a requirement for even testing for E8.
What are your thoughts? Would this be a good thing for other branches to adopt?
What are your thoughts? Would this be a good thing for other branches to adopt?
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Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 13
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I don't think so. I do think that certain technical fields would benefit if Senior NCOs got a degree related to the MOS field. But any degree just because the Air Force says so?
No.
The last thing we need is a bunch of degree mills making people think they are more qualified because they did an online course to get an Associates Degree in Liberal Arts.
No.
The last thing we need is a bunch of degree mills making people think they are more qualified because they did an online course to get an Associates Degree in Liberal Arts.
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1SG (Join to see)
I guess it makes some sense. But as an Army guy, I am unsure. What exactly does an E-8 in the Air Force really "DO" in their MOS? In the Army, it is either being a First Sergeant, which has less to do with MOS than leadership and team building, or he's a MSG working in a staff job somewhere, assisting officers with their job and generally running a shop. In neither instance is an Army E-8 really deeply involved in their MOS job. E-9s, even less so.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
In the AF a 1Sgt can be an E7-E9. E8s/E9s are usually fight superintendents overseeing their specific AFSC areas.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
Unfortunately, with the phasing out of Warrant Officers in the AF several years back, our E-8's and E-9's are more involved in the technical aspect of our AFSC's than they should be. They are "dual-hatted" and are forced to both lead AND educate. It's also why, in my opinion, the AF is suffering in the leadership department. That's a different topic, however...
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1SG (Join to see)
Thanks to CMSgt (Join to see) and TSgt Joshua Copeland for clarifying the issue for me.
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To be blunt the mandatory CCAF degree really is more about the individuals ability to show some definitive self improvement more than any real education. After tech school most people require 7 classes to get a CCAF, math, English, history, speech, and two general studies. That much education is not going to make huge impact in the individual but does quantifiably show that they can complete something.
Making further education goals become difficult because it would require the AF to foot the bill for that furthered education. We are already seeing that TA will not pay for things not directly related to your job so making degrees a requirement is a slippery slope.
Oh and the CCAF does not offer any advanced degrees, if it did then yes they would be required for SNCOs.
Making further education goals become difficult because it would require the AF to foot the bill for that furthered education. We are already seeing that TA will not pay for things not directly related to your job so making degrees a requirement is a slippery slope.
Oh and the CCAF does not offer any advanced degrees, if it did then yes they would be required for SNCOs.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
SMSgt (Join to see), the AF DOES offer advance degree (Masters/PhD) to enlisted troops. AFIT is open to enlisted members as well as a number of joint schools. My brother (TSgt) just graduated last year with a Masters from the Defense Intel University where he was a full time student.
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SMSgt (Join to see)
TSgt Joshua Copeland You are correct the AF does grant advanced degrees for SOME, very few enlisted. Trying to implement AF wide would not be feasible at this time.
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
SMSgt (Join to see), I agree since they would first almost have to open a BA/BS granting school outside of the Academy. I just wanted to make the note that while the CCAF does not (nor could it as a Community College), there are advance degrees available to enlisted members through AF and DoD schools.
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I think it's great in some ways and can be damaging in others. Traditionally, Enlisted did not need a degree, while Officers required just the Bachelor's to get their commission and that was all. The Air Force now frowns upon Officers having anything less than a Bachelor's and, as you stated, is requiring the CCAF for E-8 and above. Although I think education is important, many have taken the Enlisted route to secure a rewarding, good-paying career without the need for continued education. In the words of many: "college isn't for everyone." On the other hand, the mandatory CCAF is not difficult to get, so I am for it. I feel that it works well in the Air Force, since we are an extremely technical branch, known for its education and training programs. But I fear it may not work in other branches. I think that the Air Force needs to stop at the CCAF requirement for Enlisted, however. Mandating a Bachelor's degree to make E-8 or E-9 will weaken the force, in my opinion, and will blur the distinction between leadership traits of Officers and Senior Enlisted. Great topic of discussion!
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
CMSgt (Join to see), I see the train requiring a BA/BS for E9 coming down the track pretty fast at least on the AD side. It already play a part of the board score process.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
I definitely see it coming also, which is why I shared my thoughts on it. I disagree wholeheartedly with that decision!
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