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Was eating lunch with a couple of army buddies who are still AD. One of em got a JSCM with C device. Never heard of it before but was curious as to what the citation looked like & if commanders reserve this as a sort of valor award? From what my buddy told me, the CO gave the C in lieu of a V? That sounds kinda weird to me though. Thoughts?
Awards
Marines
Deployment
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 7
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My end of tour award will have a C device. I am currently in Afghanistan and we have received plenty of briefs on the new devices. Interestingly enough, my Battalion Commander was part of the team who wrote the doctrine on these new devices when he was at HRC.
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SSG (Join to see)
Pretty darn stupid that they didn't make it retro to the start of GWOT given how the combat conditions were the same (worse before 2016) and the end of tour awards clearly state or reference combat. If you got an ARCOM or AAM for service in Iraq or other GWOT areas, you should be able put the C device on your ribbon. The paperwork speaks for itself, not the year.
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There was a MILPER message published that detailed what the devices are for and how they are designated. I can't remember what it was but it is worth a look. I got out before these became a thing so I obviously have no interest in it any further. That being said, I do know that C stands for "In Combat" and basically would be have been attached to my EOT awards; it is definitely not the same or anywhere near comparable to a V device which actually means something.
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
SPC (Join to see) - I served with a guy who had a SS, a first sergeant who had a BSM w/V, and a medic of mine during my first deployment was awarded an ARCOM w/V for actions during that deployment. I take the V device pretty serious.
As for being awarded the weird new devices, I believe that it can be retroactively done to a certain point - don't quote me on that - but with new awards I think that it is just a part of the updated 638. I would double check with your local S1.
As for being awarded the weird new devices, I believe that it can be retroactively done to a certain point - don't quote me on that - but with new awards I think that it is just a part of the updated 638. I would double check with your local S1.
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SPC (Join to see)
IMO the V device is sacred and I agree that maybe some commanders might downgrade them. But what can you do when someone up the chain is so self conscious that recognizing true valor takes a back seat. SGT Joseph Gunderson
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SGT Joseph Gunderson
SPC (Join to see) - A C device is only a designation for the conditions under which the service was completed that the award covers. It is only something that says that I received this ARCOM (or whatever) while deployed, it is in no way, shape, or form something that can denote any scale of valorous action. If something was worthy of being recognized as Valor it needs to be awarded with that device or a valor award. Now, little known secret for people that aren't familiar with recommending awards: anyone, and I do mean anyone, can recommend an award. If someone can speak as to the conditions and actions that occurred they can put someone in for ANY award. Now, it must be taken seriously (you can't have someone recommend the SS for throwing a rock at a guy while driving down Tampa) but if there is a legitimate reason for the award it can be tossed up the chain.
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SGT (Join to see)
SGT Joseph Gunderson - Unless there has been new guidance, the MILPER message states that the new devices can be awarded for actions on or after 07 January 2016.
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The "C" device is one of the fairly new devices. The long standing "V" denotes Valor, "C" denotes Combat and the "R" denotes remote like drone pilot remote. Don't know about the in lieu of part.
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SGT Tony Clifford
CSM Richard StCyr that seems needlessly complicated. Why can't we just have the basic medal and a "V" device for valor? If you're worried about getting medals that a FOBbit gets, you're worried about the wrong things. I know that you, a CSM, probably don't care about brand new devices for your undoubtedly stacked awards rack. The real question is, why does DA care?
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SGT (Join to see)
SGT Tony Clifford - respectfully, it’s due in part as acknowledgment of the changing nature of warfare.
It’s not necessarily caring about what a “FOBbit gets”. But the DA cares so as to acknowledge the efforts of any soldier who meets the requirements as prescribed in MILPER message. The R device is particularly interesting. As warfare rapidly changes, I guarantee there’s an analyst out there who never left the FOB, but he broke out an IED network, identified and exploited multiple targets, and got them authorized for kinetic action. When it came time, he coordinated with a few people who coordinated with someone piloting a reap or pred, and it was done. A SPC analyst never leaving the FOB can have an absolutely massive impact on the battlefield.
These new devices are simply an acknowledgment of the changing face of warfare. Remember, not too, too long ago, there was a similar discussion..”why do we need a BSM? Why do we need a CIB? We already have valor awards and recognition.” As they were created to acknowledge the developments of the Army and warfare, these new devices are created in the same manner.
It’s not necessarily caring about what a “FOBbit gets”. But the DA cares so as to acknowledge the efforts of any soldier who meets the requirements as prescribed in MILPER message. The R device is particularly interesting. As warfare rapidly changes, I guarantee there’s an analyst out there who never left the FOB, but he broke out an IED network, identified and exploited multiple targets, and got them authorized for kinetic action. When it came time, he coordinated with a few people who coordinated with someone piloting a reap or pred, and it was done. A SPC analyst never leaving the FOB can have an absolutely massive impact on the battlefield.
These new devices are simply an acknowledgment of the changing face of warfare. Remember, not too, too long ago, there was a similar discussion..”why do we need a BSM? Why do we need a CIB? We already have valor awards and recognition.” As they were created to acknowledge the developments of the Army and warfare, these new devices are created in the same manner.
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CSM Richard StCyr
SGT Tony Clifford - I can honestly think of only one NCO that I would have liked to see be able to Have a "C" device. The guy was our S3 Recon Sergeant and his diligence in preparing route and threat analysis enabled us to move equipment to and from missions in a safer manner then our peers. Guys still got hit but we knew what to look for and where to expect trouble. He got an MSM for his efforts but the "C" would have made it clear to others that his efforts effected combat ops.
I imagine there are other leaders out there that have or had Troops, that while not directly exposed to Combat, significantly effected operations and wanted to recognize them.
I imagine there are other leaders out there that have or had Troops, that while not directly exposed to Combat, significantly effected operations and wanted to recognize them.
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CSM Richard StCyr
SGT (Join to see) - I like the " Kinetic action " much smoother sounding then "smoked the bastards".
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