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Had a run in with a neighbor today, and wanted to get some perspective....
I came home during lunch one day. I left my hat in the car, this is off post and a neighborhood (not in town amongst the public).
I walk my dog up the street and around the cul de sac. I consider this a private enough area.
That evening, I am walking the dog again, this time in PTs after working out.
This car stops, asks who I am (I say name and rank, since he said his), introduces himself as SGM such and such and proceeds to tell me that when I walk in HIS (emphasis that it was HIS, not our, not the) neighborhood, I need to be in the proper and complete uniform, pointing to his hat...
I get that, by regulation, he is correct. I know I was wrong. No argument there.
What is your take on this...? Do SGMs own neighborhoods off base??
What is any service member's jurisdiction and authority when off post and not performing a military duty??
When someone is out of uniform, does that change the dynamic between you two - are we neighbors, or do you still think you are large and in charge?
If you feel he was disrespectful (I said, if...), is Respect (or any Army value) optional while adhering to 670-1 mandatory (I guess it is, I mean...there is a regulation about my uniform, but someone being dishonest, selfish, disrespectful, etc...there is no regulation against it - aren't they just posters on the walls)?
Note: Example picture added by RP staff
I came home during lunch one day. I left my hat in the car, this is off post and a neighborhood (not in town amongst the public).
I walk my dog up the street and around the cul de sac. I consider this a private enough area.
That evening, I am walking the dog again, this time in PTs after working out.
This car stops, asks who I am (I say name and rank, since he said his), introduces himself as SGM such and such and proceeds to tell me that when I walk in HIS (emphasis that it was HIS, not our, not the) neighborhood, I need to be in the proper and complete uniform, pointing to his hat...
I get that, by regulation, he is correct. I know I was wrong. No argument there.
What is your take on this...? Do SGMs own neighborhoods off base??
What is any service member's jurisdiction and authority when off post and not performing a military duty??
When someone is out of uniform, does that change the dynamic between you two - are we neighbors, or do you still think you are large and in charge?
If you feel he was disrespectful (I said, if...), is Respect (or any Army value) optional while adhering to 670-1 mandatory (I guess it is, I mean...there is a regulation about my uniform, but someone being dishonest, selfish, disrespectful, etc...there is no regulation against it - aren't they just posters on the walls)?
Note: Example picture added by RP staff
Uniforms
Off Duty
Edited 7 y ago
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 228
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MAJ Jim Steven, the SGM could have handled it with more tact, but I have never heard that it is okay to be out of uniform because you're at home or near home or in a neighborhood. As SSG James Palmer IV notes, there are bigger worries in this world, but you were outdoors without your headgear on, and that means you were technically out of uniform.
That's my take, sir, with all due respect. Somebody tell me if I'm wrong on this.
That's my take, sir, with all due respect. Somebody tell me if I'm wrong on this.
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LCpl Thomas (Buddy) Broome
The 1LT is right the SGM should address the MAJ with the proper respect. However the public should always be able to look upon us as professional and ready. I believe the MAJ just had a lapse in judgment at home maybe not so bad, but on the Battlefield people could die, for this reason we all should always be ready in every way. I am 64 years old and my time of wearing the Uniform is long gone. I now wear tee shirts and hats that let people know that I was and always will be a Marine. I do wear my uniform at the Marine Corps Ball and I assure everyone it is squared away as it would be if I were still active. I leave you all with this under all circumstances have respect for the Uniform and the man that wears it because one day you all may be in Combat looking out for each other!!! Semper Fi to all my service Brothers!
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SSG Joseph Dowell
LCpl Thomas (Buddy) Broome
Well said, as a Paratrooper, my dress uniform hangs in the closet squared away as if I were to report for duty tomorrow morning, though I haven't worn it for 16 years now (and yes it still fits). As a Staff Sergeant in my last duty station (hospital) I corrected (respectfully as possible) a young 1LT who had cammo rank on her head gear in Garrison which is a logo according to regs. It was always taught to me every soldier (sailor, airman and Marine) has a responsibility to square away their fellow brother in arms regardless of rank. However, it should always be dione with tact and respect.
Well said, as a Paratrooper, my dress uniform hangs in the closet squared away as if I were to report for duty tomorrow morning, though I haven't worn it for 16 years now (and yes it still fits). As a Staff Sergeant in my last duty station (hospital) I corrected (respectfully as possible) a young 1LT who had cammo rank on her head gear in Garrison which is a logo according to regs. It was always taught to me every soldier (sailor, airman and Marine) has a responsibility to square away their fellow brother in arms regardless of rank. However, it should always be dione with tact and respect.
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SMSgt Lawrence McCarter
1LT Thomas Fallon - In fact as a Police Officer, I changed into uniform at the station and before I left at the end of a shift to go home I changed back into civilian clothes. I could wear the uniform to and from work, I chose no to as most the people on our Department also did. In a Military uniform i did wear that to and from work but when I got home changed to civilian clothes and didn't wear any part of the uniform around the neighborhood or outside in the yard. I never felt it was proper. Very few people have any contact with Military members at all and often don't even know anyone that is a service member and I wanted to make sure if I was seen a proper image was made.
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Sir,
I don't recall 670-1 having a "neighborhood" clause in it anywhere? Uniform wear and appearance and the regulation that governs how we wear the uniform are not subject to individual discretion. The SGM may have delivered his point in a pompous manner but his message was none the less right on.
There are enough degradations of standards and traditions that soldiers and officers commit and make lite of when corrected. This is just another sad example of that, and a display of what some might perceive as a lack of integrity. I hope that's not the case.
The simple fix is to be all the way in uniform, or all the way out of uniform.
No disrespect intended.
I don't recall 670-1 having a "neighborhood" clause in it anywhere? Uniform wear and appearance and the regulation that governs how we wear the uniform are not subject to individual discretion. The SGM may have delivered his point in a pompous manner but his message was none the less right on.
There are enough degradations of standards and traditions that soldiers and officers commit and make lite of when corrected. This is just another sad example of that, and a display of what some might perceive as a lack of integrity. I hope that's not the case.
The simple fix is to be all the way in uniform, or all the way out of uniform.
No disrespect intended.
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CSM (Join to see)
Pull rank in your neighborhood? SFC Chris Smith..what does that even mean? You think you're exempt from military discipline, rank structure and chain of command in certain situations that you decide or dream up? Wake up call...you're not. Frankly, the fact that you insinuate that there is some on off switch for rank structure is infuriating and sad all at once. I expect a senior NCO to have more sense than that. Sadly, you're mentality is a primary example of how much the NCO Corps needs to purge itself of all of the non-hackers we have allowed to move up through the ranks unchecked who do not live up to the standard. You're comments here are piss poor.
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SSG (Join to see)
SFC Chris Smith,
Maturity is probably the first quality required for an NCO. I should remember that more often thank you for the example.
Maturity is probably the first quality required for an NCO. I should remember that more often thank you for the example.
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PO2 Erik Swanson
I think it's funny. Yes, all the way dressed, or not at all. But I never cared enough off base to correct anyone. I can see if you're doing an event or recruiting, but I don't know how many times I've seen service men and women doing something in their neighborhood in their BDU pants and a t shirt. Out of uniform? Yes. Do I really care enough to say something? No. Bigger issues to worry about.
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SSG Robert Webster
CPT Toby Forbes - I think that you are a little bit behind the times, the current Soldier's Guide is FM 7-21.13. What is interesting is that the first example of an on-the-spot correction is an E-3 correcting a CPL (E-4).
My question to you would be, Who do want to provide you with an on-the-spot correction, the Bde Commander, the Bde XO, the Bde CSM, the S-3, the S-3 SGM, or your Operations NCO counterpart? I will tell you what several of my Battle Captain counterparts told me - they would rather that I provide the correction than any of the above (that included the ROK Officers, that I was responsible for).
My question to you would be, Who do want to provide you with an on-the-spot correction, the Bde Commander, the Bde XO, the Bde CSM, the S-3, the S-3 SGM, or your Operations NCO counterpart? I will tell you what several of my Battle Captain counterparts told me - they would rather that I provide the correction than any of the above (that included the ROK Officers, that I was responsible for).
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MAJ Jim Steven, I concur with the sergeant major; uniform equals full uniform, regardless of location.
Looks like he took the first opportunity to make the on-the-spot-correction, so I'm fine with the way he corrected you. There are worse ways to make that kind of correction that are more inappropriate.
Looks like he took the first opportunity to make the on-the-spot-correction, so I'm fine with the way he corrected you. There are worse ways to make that kind of correction that are more inappropriate.
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