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There is a lot of discussion on the perception that the government will allow someone who is not a legal citizen to join our services. Everyone is wrapped up in the word "criminal" and "lawful" and "illegal". I pose this question to you about our recruiters who are in deed supposed to screen and validate each one of us who is serving today and will serve in the future.
Are recruiters engaging in criminal activity if they knowingly exclude information you give them so that you may enter the service or MOS? I was interviewed and answered all my questions with candor (before even knowing what it was) and the answers he placed on the page were skewed somewhat. I asked about it and he said that if anyone asked I was to answer the question this way. Was this criminal activity?
I joined the Army after applying for the Houston Police Department and answered the same question the way. They asked me to take a long walk and come back in 5 years to re-apply. I will leave the questions up to your imagination, because if you are on Rally Point, you answered the same questions I did.
There is so much passion about the "Illegal" aspect of these folks, but just like our civilian counterparts who hire folks knowingly who are not within the guidelines to even be employed, are recruiters accountable for the same issue if they are a US citizen and not within the guidelines for service?
Are recruiters engaging in criminal activity if they knowingly exclude information you give them so that you may enter the service or MOS? I was interviewed and answered all my questions with candor (before even knowing what it was) and the answers he placed on the page were skewed somewhat. I asked about it and he said that if anyone asked I was to answer the question this way. Was this criminal activity?
I joined the Army after applying for the Houston Police Department and answered the same question the way. They asked me to take a long walk and come back in 5 years to re-apply. I will leave the questions up to your imagination, because if you are on Rally Point, you answered the same questions I did.
There is so much passion about the "Illegal" aspect of these folks, but just like our civilian counterparts who hire folks knowingly who are not within the guidelines to even be employed, are recruiters accountable for the same issue if they are a US citizen and not within the guidelines for service?
Posted in these groups: 
Recruiting
Service
Recruiting Service
Posted 10 y ago
Responses: 3
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I was "lucky" enough to be a Recruiter back in the day. It was a standard saying of "No, None, and Never" ,which was how to tell the applicants to answer questions. I didn't take that tact as it wasn't nearly as important to get a recruit as was my career. I actually had a Reserve Recruiter tell me " I asked all the medical questions of this candidate so you don't have to" I didn't particularly trust him and ended up finding out the kid had a plate in his head.
On that note the application process can be ridiculous at times. I had a candidate who said when he was 7 his parents were going to adopt a sibling. They were scheduled for family counseling because of it. The MEPS Dr wanted to see the counseling paperwork before he could enter (hence the No, None and Never)
Hard to blame the Recruiter in most cases because this same kid answered a 100 question form and failed to mention this counseling. Most Recruiters were honest in my opinion and like anything, the exceptions stick out.
But, to finally answer your question, yes I feel the Recruiter is responsible for truthfully enlisting a candidate.
On that note the application process can be ridiculous at times. I had a candidate who said when he was 7 his parents were going to adopt a sibling. They were scheduled for family counseling because of it. The MEPS Dr wanted to see the counseling paperwork before he could enter (hence the No, None and Never)
Hard to blame the Recruiter in most cases because this same kid answered a 100 question form and failed to mention this counseling. Most Recruiters were honest in my opinion and like anything, the exceptions stick out.
But, to finally answer your question, yes I feel the Recruiter is responsible for truthfully enlisting a candidate.
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SFC Joseph McCausland
Having served on assignment as an AGR Recruiter for over 10 years, I can say first hand..
that recruiting duty is one of the most high pressured and stressful jobs you could ever undertake. I have seen recruiters who had exemplary military records and row after row of ribbons on their chest, buckle under pressure. Some when AWOL...one drove to Canada and sadly one placed a 45 cal. in his mouth and pulled the trigger.
The most important thing a recruiter must possess to get him through the hard times is... "INTEGRITY'.. If you live by this word and its meaning, then you will never do wrong regardless of the consequences that may come your way.
To this day, I wake up every morning and look at myself in the mirror and say "I am proud of who I am because I am a man of integrity".
Take a few minutes and look up the definition of this all encompassing word and you will see what I mean.
that recruiting duty is one of the most high pressured and stressful jobs you could ever undertake. I have seen recruiters who had exemplary military records and row after row of ribbons on their chest, buckle under pressure. Some when AWOL...one drove to Canada and sadly one placed a 45 cal. in his mouth and pulled the trigger.
The most important thing a recruiter must possess to get him through the hard times is... "INTEGRITY'.. If you live by this word and its meaning, then you will never do wrong regardless of the consequences that may come your way.
To this day, I wake up every morning and look at myself in the mirror and say "I am proud of who I am because I am a man of integrity".
Take a few minutes and look up the definition of this all encompassing word and you will see what I mean.
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CW5 Sam R. Baker, I would say that the answer to your question is a resounding yes. I understand that recruiters are under pressure to make a quota, but skewing or changing answers (facts) from a potential recruit is just plain wrong. In fact, I have seen instances where law enforcement has pursued this sort of behavior. I don't know the outcome of the cases, but I do know that recruiters "fudging" at least got them in trouble and was brought to the attention of law enforcement.
On the other hand, I'm sure there are a lot of Johnnys and Suzys out there who will file complaints claiming that their recruiter lied to them, etc., so it's a two-edged sword.
On the other hand, I'm sure there are a lot of Johnnys and Suzys out there who will file complaints claiming that their recruiter lied to them, etc., so it's a two-edged sword.
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
Agreed Scott! As an MP that was the wildest thing when having a Soldier or service member fill out a DA FM 2823. I clearly briefed after reading rights, that utmost integrity on this document regarding incidents and questions being asked was paramount. Folks still sign away knowing that they have held something back or skewed it. As a traffic investigator back in the day, it only takes three people separated by walls and asked questions to figure out what really happened. It was always Blotter fodder to go ahead and charge folks with falsifying documents.
Appreciate the reply.
Appreciate the reply.
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False official statement by both you and the recruiter. Art 107 and 83 of the UCMJ. I have know at least 1 recruiter to get Art 15'd over it and several people booted for it.
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CW5 Sam R. Baker
TSgt Joshua Copeland, I answered the statement truthful, he would not allow me to change the document, no one ever asked me anything after that, the clearance was granted, guess they should come and wrap me up, incarcerate and throw away the key!
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TSgt Joshua Copeland
CW5 Sam R. Baker, I was not referring specifically to you in the grammatical "anyone" manner. However, if you signed it, they at least theoretically could do that.
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