2 Day Make Up SUTA Policy for a MUTA 2?

SPC Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 19:37:17 -0400

My unit has recently made a change to our SUTA policy. For a MUTA2 we would have to come in two days. For example, if I needed to SUTA a weekend drill, MUTA4, I would need to make up four days. Do other units do this as well?

Response by CPT Ahmed Faried made Jun 4 at 2015 7:41 PM

CPT Ahmed Faried — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 19:41:34 -0400

What do the acronyms stand for?

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 7:48 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 19:48:30 -0400

Other units do it, but I don't agree with it.
An RST is rescheduled training. It should have the same training schedule to the extent possible as the time missed. Having the Soldier come in for two days is a passive-aggressive way to try to deter RST requests.
And for what? Busy work?

This First Sergeant says no.

Response by MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca made Jun 4 at 2015 7:54 PM

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 19:54:46 -0400

Never saw that type of requirement. Your full time CofC must have a reason. Granted that does seem unfair. It could be that due to full time requirements they don't have someone to supervise you for an 8 hr period or you are being utilized for recruiting or some other purpose that only requires a UTA.

Generally SNCOs and Os don't require supervision when doing a SUTA or do a SUTA as part of staff call or other senior leader function. Once in a while we would do a MUTA-3 on a weekend because the AG would hold a mandatory SNCO/O call on an off weekend or during the week. Same thing with YTP. We would hold a state-wide YTP meeting on an off drill weekend so all SNCOs/Os could attend.

Response by 1SG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 9:18 PM

1SG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:18:02 -0400

SPC Private RallyPoint Member I won't ask your unit but what state? Since they are requiring you to drill two days for the one you missed, they are still required to pay you for each days work. If they aren't, they should be reported. If they are, I'm impressed by their budget and disappointed in their poor management technique. That is not the point of a SUTA and it should not be punitive in nature. Yours is the first unit (I've served in 3 different state NG) I've heard of doing this.

Response by MSgt Keith Hebert made Jun 4 at 2015 9:40 PM

MSgt Keith Hebert — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 21:40:44 -0400

The only requirement we hand was that we had was the make-up had to be during the week(for the full time personnel) or you could make the days up(in the same quarter) by coming in on the Friday before a regular scheduled drill weekend

Response by SSG Dennis Feller made Jun 4 at 2015 10:18 PM

SSG Dennis Feller — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 22:18:05 -0400

They are trying to discourage split training. A UTA is a UTA. Yes, technically they can keep you all weekend to satisfy 4 UTA's in a drill weekend. It is unusual, unless you are in the field, travelling... but it does have legal standing. Best bet is to plan to make regularly scheduled drills if you want to get credit for less work time.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 10:43 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 22:43:30 -0400

A UTA is a minimum of a four-hour block of service, and can theoretically commence at any time of the day or night. A MUTA-4 is equal to (4) 4-hour blocks of training.

AR 140-1 Ch 3. para 3-4
1. MUTAs are two or more UTAs conducted consecutively, subject to the following:
(a) No more than two UTAs are conducted per day.
(b) Only one retirement point credit and 1 day’s pay is allowed for each UTA, regardless of the number of hours of training each day

(2) Conducting consecutive UTAs and MUTAs will make possible having a MUTA–2 in 1 day, a MUTA–3 or MUTA–4 in 2 days, and a MUTA–5 or MUTA–6 in 3 days.

(4) When a MUTA is scheduled for a calendar day, each UTA will be of equal duration. Time for meals served in garrison environment will not be included when training time is computed for the UTAs.
d. Single UTA or combinations. Commanders may use either single UTA or combinations that best suit their unit training requirements and goals. The CG, USARC and OCONUS Army commanders will set minimum field training requirements.

So the CoC can make you come in those 4 days for 4 hour blocks only; Period 1 on the 1st day, period 2 on the 2nd day and so forth.

However here's the thing I don't understand, if you're on T10 ADOS orders, you're auto-populated in MyUnitPay as a 'C' for constructive credit for the attendance code, why? your on active duty orders.

The individual generating the DA 1379 in MyUnitPay, can't and shouldn't be changing your attendance code, instead make a comment in the remarks section you made up unit training what ever that was.

MAJ Robert (Bob) Petrarca brought up a good point, why is your CoC doing this? Well one thing in AR 140-1, is a part that reads :
3-9
b. Attendance standards. Units are expected to maintain a minimum attendance of 85 percent of assigned strength during each monthly training period. Units failing to achieve this standard will be subject to special command interest and unsatisfactory inspection ratings. ( and it gives a list of reasons etc)

So yes, you are making up scheduled training by your organic unit. However there should be some coordination with your attached unit to help you fulfill your home unit's training, warrior tasks, CLS training etc. We had a policy for ADOS that included if you're traveling to your ADOS job and it was not within the 50 mile radius of your home unit, you would not be approved to go on ADOS.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 4 at 2015 11:04 PM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Thu, 04 Jun 2015 23:04:54 -0400

This is something new to me as well, never heard of it here.

Response by SGT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 7:31 AM

SGT Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 07:31:46 -0400

That's....not how MUTA's work. Pay wise a single MUTA is only a half day. So a MUTA2 is one full day. The fact your unit is trying to make you work twice as long for half the pay seems suspect.

Response by SGT Richard Ellis made Jun 5 at 2015 8:20 AM

SGT Richard Ellis — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 08:20:05 -0400

Too many troops have abused the system. Plus on a drill weekend you are getting 4 days pay for 2 days work. if you SUTA/RUTA you are also missing out on scheduled training.

Yes there are some times that something unexpected comes up. But like I said, some guys abuse the system and ruined it for everybody.

Response by LTC Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 8:30 AM

LTC Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 08:30:09 -0400

So SPC Miller are you there for 4-hours each day?

Response by LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 10:37 AM

LTC(P) Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 10:37:31 -0400

It should just be one day. I've had people want to make up a MUTA5 that the unit went to the field by hanging out at the armory 8-4, surfing the Internet. In that case I would make them do three full days.

Response by SFC Steven Wheeler made Jun 5 at 2015 12:02 PM

SFC Steven Wheeler — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 12:02:07 -0400

I actually wondered if this would ever happen many years ago. My main question is; when making up a single UTA, are you performing 4 hours of work or 8 hours?

I can also see this policy would drastically reduce the number of guardsman requesting to make up missed drill period(s). If not making up these drill periods due this policy, pay close attention to make sure you will have enough points to have a good year towards retirement.

Response by SGT Bryon Sergent made Jun 5 at 2015 2:00 PM

SGT Bryon Sergent — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 14:00:06 -0400

First off what is a SUTA never heard that one.

Response by SSG Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 6:28 PM

SSG Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 18:28:43 -0400

Something doesn't sound right here and I need to digest it. I enter attendance into MYUNITPAY for my unit.

A tradition Guard weekend is a MUTA 4. Each day is broken into two periods which equal out to 2 MUTA's for one day. A full weekend is 4 periods.

Splitting (RST) before and after can be done up to 45 days on either side of the scheduled drill - however commands don't like Soldiers waiting forever to make up drill - and if you wait too long you can go outside the window and not be able to make it. Result could be a bad year points wise and really mess up when you plan to retire.

Units can bring you in on RMA funds - this is different from IDT and depends if funds are available. The money is equivalent of one period of drill and cannot be used on a day that drill is scheduled. This duty also does not earn you retirement points. It is good if I need you to come in for a show down inspection and not expect you to be around all day.

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 6:52 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 18:52:49 -0400

Every unit does what it needs to accomplish the mission, including the mission of drill attendance.

My policy for my unit was if you make up a drill before the actual drill, I do it on a day for day basis. (one 8-5 day for 2 UTAs.) If you want to make up after drill, I want 6 hours for every missed UTA. Why? First, it helps people plan ahead instead of calling at the last minute to say they need off. Second, an RST before the drill counts as a Present for Training. RST after drill counts as AWOL. (And the regs, at least in 2002 when I was a 1SG, say a UTA has to be at least 2 and no more than 6 hours, unless the two UTA are in the same day, in which case they can cover an entire 24-hour day. Obvious, but without that caveat, there would be no staying in the field overnight.)

It's also worth noting that some soldiers seem to need more excused absences than others. I try not to judge, but I wonder if those same soldiers ask for equivalent time off from their civilian job. So check your own record. If you need more excused absences than your peers, doesn't that say something about your commitment to the unit?

Why shouldn't I expect some cooperation in return for allowing someone off?

Response by COL Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 5 at 2015 7:14 PM

COL Private RallyPoint Member — Fri, 05 Jun 2015 19:14:52 -0400

I understand that a MUTA 2 is typically one day of drill. I also know that a MUTA 2 constitutes 2 days of pay. Unless it is specified otherwise in a policy letter from your higher headquarters, there is nothing wrong nor illegal about you performing two days of work for two days of pay. Substitute unit training assemblies are at the discretion of your unit leadership. This SUTA policy should not differ from Soldier to Soldier within a unit (applied equitably).

Response by SFC Daniel Faires made Jun 6 at 2015 11:46 AM

SFC Daniel Faires — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 11:46:50 -0400

NGR 350-1, 600-20

It's in the regulations it's not left up to interpretation
Read the regs know the regs that is your defense
SPC you seem to have a bunch of questions regarding this same issue just worded differently
If you feel you need an impartial no bullshit answer feel free to contact me

Response by SGM Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 6 at 2015 1:25 PM

SGM Private RallyPoint Member — Sat, 06 Jun 2015 13:25:46 -0400

It's legal (a UTA must be at least 4 hours, but can be all day), but bad policy (my opinion). However, I'm not in your unit, so I can't judge whether or not the policy is justified by the actions of the Guardsmen there. Keep in mind that the father of most bad policies is the action of a few shitheads.

Response by CPT Private RallyPoint Member made Jun 10 at 2015 6:12 PM

CPT Private RallyPoint Member — Wed, 10 Jun 2015 18:12:54 -0400

This is against Regs. The only condition on SUTA that can be imposed by command is that it be performed within 30 days of the missed drill. This is a budgetary issue. The unit cannot make you do four days for a MUTA 4. It violates regs and funding authorities. talk to your IG or JAG. Be prepared for the fallout.

Response by SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member made Jul 5 at 2015 8:34 AM

SMSgt Private RallyPoint Member — Sun, 05 Jul 2015 08:34:31 -0400

If those of you that are doing that go to the regulations that govern a UTA you will find that information there. A UTA consists of 4 periods of 4-6 hours only. The Active Duty has been driving the whole one day for Drill to save money. So with that said I ask you how many people would come into the Guard for half of what they get paid on Drill. The Guard management knows it wouldn't happen but if they can start to sneak little things like what they are doing to you now bye you without anyone saying anything then they have accomplished it "under the radar". Goggle the regulations on UTA's it will surprise you what they aren't following by the regulations.

Response by CSM Charles Hayden made Aug 17 at 2015 10:00 PM

CSM Charles Hayden — Mon, 17 Aug 2015 22:00:24 -0400

SPC Sarah Miller, And, how many days pay will you receive?