Should soldiers be solely responsible for their own PT?

CW3 Matt Hutchason I agree with your excellent response.

But how do you attain unit cohesion if soldiers do not do PT with the officers?
I had far more trust, respect, and cohesion with my PL that PTed with us voluntarily, than any of the other officers and senior NCOs we never saw.
And a college degree and commission unfortunately does not automatically make someone responsible. Those who prove they cannot handle that responsibility (to PT alone) need to be controlled and supervised.

SPC (Join to see) - You make some great points. Unit PT is where the cohesion is built, and in most instances, Company PT is conducted once a week with everybody. In most places, squad or platoon PT is scheduled for most days. Those are the days when, generally, non PL officers and the enlisted folks who are high achievers are doing things on their own. And I absolutely agree with you that a college degree does not in and of itself make one more mature or special. What is generally taken into consideration is that those officers set a goal to commit to something (4 years or more of extra study that isn't a requirement, as opposed to high school, which generally is a requirement), they took the steps necessary to get into an officer program (which is much harder to qualify for than boot camp), and completed OCS (which is generally longer and harder than boot camp). In the Marine Corps, after OCS, all officers go to The Basic School (aka TBS), which is 6 months long. That they arrive in a position to lead, officers have proven a maturity level most 17 or 18 or 21 year old folks don't have. There are exceptions to every scenario, of course, but that is generally the rationale of why you may not see officers at squad or platoon PT. I also agree with you that participation of officers in every PT session can make the soldiers look more highly at them.

SGT Caroline Slothour - That's a good question. Clearly, a resume like that would show a level of maturity and dedication that could be taken into consideration. If I were a commander, I would look favorably on those things. But again, many factors go into command policy on PT, and it really does depend on what type of unit it is (infantry Company as compared with an HHC at the Pentagon). I don't believe you'll find an infantry Battalion that doesn't have 100% participation at Organized PT 5 days a week.

I whole heartedly agree with you sir. The army (and I imagine every other branch) has a lot of soldiers who would not do PT if they had the opportunity. I believe that the groups of soldiers that truly cared would then rise to the top. I agree that units need to do PT that is mission focused. I also agree that it has to be done with a policy letter and not a regulation because of the different missions each unit may have.

I have been stationed here at Fort Carson since April. I have only done Pt 6 times because of mission requirements. I show up at 0430 and usually get home around 2100. I was recently flagged and put on the overweight program. With all this being said, a lot of Soldiers don't have time for PT. The Army has huge numbers of overweight Soldiers, but the missions are increasing and the number of soldiers is decreasing.

Come on man, those are just basic everyday responsibilities that's expected of them. Hell, I used to be surprised that the army even allowed soldiers to do some of those common sense, simple, everyday things on their own. If a recruiter would have described those exact points you made, I would have probably walked away, because if that's all the control you will give me over my career, that's weak.

You say its amazing that the military "gives you time, space and resources on duty time", of course they do, there's no other option. The big army knows that if it tighten its grips so severe to the point of enforcing soldiers to live in the barracks to micromanage their time even more, retention rates would drastically drop, even more so the morale!

The problem I've heard and felt personally over my short TIS, is the concept that I cannot be trusted to do my own physical fitness to meet/exceed the APFT standards. Soldiers, signed the dotted line as an adult, are expected to conduct themselves as adults, show responsibility as adults, prove accountability as adults and without any question, held responsible for actions as adults, but cannot do PT on their own, as adults.

Give a soldier a PT test monthly, if s/he fails, give them a re-take. If they fail the re-take, kick them out. I know it's not always a fast process and sounds easier said than done, but hell, soldiers are all adults, they know the standards and if they fall short, goodbye.

Wow this turned out to be a long post, sorry.
BLUF: Its the Army, we are a team and will do everything possible as a team even if other things would be more efficient, cause the one thing the Army aint short of is manpower (compared to civilian organizations).

What exactly did you think you were joining when you signed those multiple dotted lines? The military is completely about doing things as a group/ team, All the time with everything but some competitions. You're thinking me, me me, not team. This is shown in all the inaccurate Hollywood movies, numerous fiction, non fiction and sci-fi books. Hell the main thing veterens tend to miss is not the PT, cause hey who honestly likes unit PT, but the camaraderie that is built surviving those PT sessions led by that one NCO who was a psycho.

I've always thought the privilage of doing PT on my own was a reward for continued, demonstrated good performance. Does this mean a private or new SPC is going to get this privilage? Unlikely as that doesnt meet the the continued performance requirement. But on the other hand I've given those new Soldiers that think, or actually do, know everything about PT the chance to develop a PT plan and then execute that plan. Then let them recieve crap (and professional development and advice) from their buddies and leaders for their way too ambitious plan...

If an enlisted Soldier shows up and fails an APFT, what happens to them? Counseling, remedial PT and likely a bit of a rough time till they pass. Up to, (sometimes beyond...) 3 times, and if they pass, they can still get promoted.

If an officer fails, well that just shot that officers chances of competing against thier peers for command, decent evaluations and basic respect from subordinates, peers and superiors alike down the drain. Not so good eval? Well say hello to OSB and if that has passed say goodby to competitiveness against your peers for promotion.

Why dont staff officers do PT with their HHC company most times? Generally cause the HHC 1SGs and commanders dont like having their peers and seniors telling them, or suggesting, "better" ways of doing things, or complaining about PRT.

SGT Chris Hill - Sounds like you are looking for a career opportunity that rewards being an individual, self motivated non team player.. nothing worng with that at all.
Unless you choose to join a Team centered orginzation like the US Army, in which case you would have set yourself up for disappointment and a lackluster career, that those all around you excelled in and you fell farther and farther behind your peers, becoming disgruntled and further antagonistic of the orginzation you asked to join.

I fail to understand what my views on organized PT and allowing soldiers to be responsible for themselves, has to do with your response. It's a simple concept that obviously will never be implemented in the army, I am aware of that. I won't go as far to say that I got out because of the PT expectation (formations, organized PT), but I definitely did get constantly frustrated with the concept. I sucked it up for 10 years, obviously nowhere as long as most of you on here, but it was a decent amount of time. I could go on a run and work out on my own, as I did on weekends at home and still score a 280 plus each APFT.

Just because I asked to join, doesn't dismiss the truth that things in the army could change for the better. Just because you join something willingly, doesn't mean you agree with everything about it and never have ideas on how to improve. I wasn't disgruntled until my final year before I got out, and my disgruntleness wasn't made obvious to soldiers, I voiced my opinions to peers.

The career I have now, has it's hard days and long hours. But I love it because common sense exists and you're responsible for yourself, which is the real world. The army doesn't set soldiers up for the "real world", soldiers get so used to NCOs helping them figure things out rather than letting them learn to figure things out and offer assistance if they need it.