Your boss is a toxic leader. How should we deal with their abuse? Is it our responsibility to do anything?

Amen. True

I agree with MSG Daniel Castaneda. You do not see that same product in the ranks you did 20-30 years ago. And I would have to question what do you mean by "toxic leadership" because I bet the term is defined differently between a MSG and a SPC.

I had a really bad dynamic duo PSG and PL when I got to the 82nd back in April of 2013. The platoon sergeant had a leadership style of pure and constant pressure. The platoon leader promoted his own "agenda" and they both allowed soldiers to totally bypass their squad leaders and come to them with their issues. Both of them encouraged cronyism and moles within the ranks. I once yelled at a soldier from my own squad because he backed a trailer squarely into a building. He busted both the tail lights out and bend the tailgate so bad that we had to pry it out with crowbars and knock it open with a sledgehammer. I watched it happen at a distance. I was so mad that I ran over there as soon as it happened and began to lay down the hammer in propper NCO manner. I must have called him every name in the book. My ears were ringing I was so mad. I began to pt him right in front of the entire platoon. The platoon sergeant came up behind me and began chewing me out right in front of the entire platoon. I stopped what i was doing and turned around and automatically went to parade rest. I was getting laid into for a solid minute when the PL rolls up right behind him and pulls me aside. So apparently I belittled the soldier in front of his buddies and made him feel bad for backing a trailer on a hummv into a building in the motor pool in front of everyone and I saw the entire thing from the motor pool gate and the PL said that since I wasn't physically present at the incident(even though I saw it all happen) that I couldn't do a sworn statement and push for an article 15. The soldier didn't seem to care. Not even when it happened. I found out later that him and his tc were just gonna park the trailer back on line and dispatch a different one. The soldier went behind my back to the dynamic duo and said he didn't feel comfortable working with me after the incident. Based on this I got a formal on paper counseling from the psg with the pl present saying that I was aggressive, overly motivated, and angry. The plan of action they had for me was basically calm down and slack of so that the soldiers had to go to mommy and daddy to suckle from their teets for all their army needs and the squad leaders would not have any nay or say on how where or when to lead mentor and train their soldiers. I told them both to that it was bogus and I wasn't signing it. They chewed me out and marched me down to the company commander's office and just walked right in yelling about giving me an article 15 for refusing to sign a bogus counseling. I explained to him what happened by myself after he told both of the dynamic duo to shut the f up and get the f out of his office and told me to sit down and tell him what happened. After that he told me to get up and wait outside. He brought the duo in and I heard him say are both of you that Fing stupid and how childish can you both be? He is your NCO. He is a squad leader. You don't bypass your NCOs! They are there for a reason!
The company commander used to be a SSG before he went to the dark side.
He squashed that mess right then and there. I still had to bear the duo for another year before they moved on. There are a ton of other bad experiences I had with them, but this one happened my first month of being there. The company commander and 1sg moved on like they all do in the 82nd every 6 months. Needless to say that the morale and cohesion was freyed in the plt and morale was non existent after about 4 months of their plotting scheming and manipulation.

As far as toxic leaders the chain of command doesn't always deal with it until it becomes an inconvenience to them. Like in the 82nd where we were in and out of the field every month, but when incidents like what I went through never get resolved and gets no attention until it becomes a problem it makes me mad. A machine runs much better when it well oiled and finely tuned. It's gonna run like a morbidly obese hippo if you drain the oil out of it and throw sand on it.

SGT Howell this is very descriptive. I have seen it a lot that when you try to do what is right you are shamed. As long as your command can paint a pretty picture to higher not much will change, pending on the higher command. Command climate surveys and IG have protected areas but without proof there isn't really much you can do. At that, getting proof is difficult because we don't know what is being said to the your boss' boss. I've seen situations where a survey was extremely poor and it got rolled up as "improve teamwork." The unit was great but our head was extremely toxic. A pretty picture is painted so not much came of it.There is poor leadership out there and they will continue to do whatever they can to keep attention off of them. So when subordinates provide feedback of mission/tasks, it falls on deaf ears unless the command team is getting beat up about something. It's a sad day when leaders are not empowered to influence change. That's how we fall into the old saying "well that is how it has always been"

CPT (Join to see) I had an old 1SG tell me to keep a notebook just for developing my leadership. He said you can lean just as much from a bad leader as you can a good one. If somebody does something that is jacked up write it down, then write why it is jacked up, and then how you would have done it better. I still have my book. Some of the things I was wrong about (at the level I was at at the time I did not see the big picture). Most things I was right on. I used those to develop myself. I still write down leadership styles even though I am out.

I am still of the opinion of keep your mouth shut. Poor leadership is like cancer it will eventually kill an organization. Running you mouth to the wrong person is like a pimple. You pop it and it goes away never to be thought about again. They still got cancer, but they don't have to worry about that annoying pimple anymore.

It's funny you say that because I actually do write this down in a book. I am a firm believer that you can learn from any situation, good or bad. I have had some great ones and I have had some extremely bad examples. Patience is one of the biggest virtues to practice.

Sir, I would encourage you to share that with young NCOs. It made a difference for me in my time with the Army.

COL Lee Flemming - Leaders have to be engaged sir. You cannot be everything to everyone, but a subordinate being a toxic leader should not be a surprise. A senior leader takes years to develop and toxic leadership traits are years in the making. That personality may form as a child, but the behaviors are reinforced throughout our lives. All of us are fallible and hopefully working on our own issues. However, other than claiming ignorance an engaged boss will know. I completely understand new arrivals or geographically displaced units, but that isn't valid for all the other supervisors along the way. If the leadership is engaged, they know.

CPT Mark Gonzalez leaders absolutely have to be engaged !!

SP5 Christine Conley - Leadership is a skill that requires development. I believe as a Christian that the majority of society has a good heart and means well, however people are still fundamentally flawed. They will make mistakes and they need to in order to develop. However, some people are not good people and a smaller percentage have excellent deception skills. So I agree it is possible to be tricked. I also know as a former general's aide and commander at one time that the face people present is often what they want you to see. It is normal behavior for everyone though to show their best face. If you are willing to be a jerk or abrasive to your boss though they may want to watch that person even more closely as they are probably an even bigger jerk to their subordinates.

COL Lee Flemming @LTC Alan West was subject to MG? Odinero’s wrath, but did escape with his retirement as a LTC.

LTC West’s action was certainly attention grabbing. Was he wrong?