Posted on Jun 6, 2014
MSG stand at Parade Rest for 1SG or SGM for a CSM
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I am finding a lot of contention with the saluting post. I will now put on the level of enlisted soldiers now.
If you are in a company that has a MSG in it, like an HHC, would the MSG stand at parade rest for the 1SG. The 1SG is the senior most soldier in the company. Would this be the case for a OPS SGM and the BN CSM.
I know they are all the same pay grade but the duty position makes one the Senior and one the subordinate. If you think this is still not clear. Would a BN CSM stand at Parade Rest for a BDE CSM.
Would a SPC and a CPL be the same as they are in the same pay grade?
As with LTs they see themselves as peers but one is still senior to the other.
FM 7-21.13 para 4-16
• When speaking to or being addressed a noncommissioned officer of superior rank, stand at parade rest until ordered otherwise.
If you are in a company that has a MSG in it, like an HHC, would the MSG stand at parade rest for the 1SG. The 1SG is the senior most soldier in the company. Would this be the case for a OPS SGM and the BN CSM.
I know they are all the same pay grade but the duty position makes one the Senior and one the subordinate. If you think this is still not clear. Would a BN CSM stand at Parade Rest for a BDE CSM.
Would a SPC and a CPL be the same as they are in the same pay grade?
As with LTs they see themselves as peers but one is still senior to the other.
FM 7-21.13 para 4-16
• When speaking to or being addressed a noncommissioned officer of superior rank, stand at parade rest until ordered otherwise.
Customs and Courtesies
NCOs
Peers
Edited >1 y ago
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 49
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A MSG does not have to stand at parade rest for a 1SG. They are both NCO's of the same grade.
The argument regarding Specialist vs Corporal is invalid. I do not see any chevrons on a specialist. A corporal is an NCO a specialist is not.
9 times out of ten (in the infantry anyway) a MSG had already suffered his time as a 1SG and is in a staff position being groomed for the next higher pay grade.
My advice to any 1SG who tries to play a rank game with a MSG. Do everyone a solid and turn in your diamond because you are to damn full of yourself to have any business leading troops.
The argument regarding Specialist vs Corporal is invalid. I do not see any chevrons on a specialist. A corporal is an NCO a specialist is not.
9 times out of ten (in the infantry anyway) a MSG had already suffered his time as a 1SG and is in a staff position being groomed for the next higher pay grade.
My advice to any 1SG who tries to play a rank game with a MSG. Do everyone a solid and turn in your diamond because you are to damn full of yourself to have any business leading troops.
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1SG (Join to see)
To the question asked, MSG''s as 1SG''s are peers. One does not out rank another, they just have different functions. I have been a 1SG of a BDE HHB, yes it is just like herding cats. I would never expect a MSG to be a parade rest when talking to me. And if a 1SG expected that from me, we'll after I stopped laughing we could discuss it.
As for calling the 1SG Top, it is a term of respect and I have no problem with.
As for calling the 1SG Top, it is a term of respect and I have no problem with.
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MAJ Todd Lamb
I think this is stupid. Rank is an identifier of function, not necessarily of ability. A DA form can transform a MSG into a 1SG, and I've seen both so sloppy that it's no wonder no one respected them. If I needed a PSG I promoted (position) within my best squad leaders. I got in a lot of trouble, but nobody died
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CPL Rodney Trotter
I was a prior service Corporal in the USMC before I reenlisted into the Army Reserves. I had to lose a rank to join back up, but when I got promoted from PFC back up to an E-4, I was actually made a Corporal in the Army, instead of a Specialist. My Reserve unit had no freaking clue how to treat a Corporal. To most of them, I was just another Spec and was even subjected to the same working parties as the E3s and below, not in charge of those working parties, WORKING those working parties.
After talking with my Reserve Unit's First Sgt, he got in the formation before the end of the day one drill weekend and had to verbally chew out every NCO and Staff NCO in the unit for treating a fellow NCO as a buck private. He said that since I was a prior service USCM Corporal, I'd had more time in leadership under my belt that the majority of them and from that day on I was to treated as a Corporal. He said if they had no clue how to do that, pretend I was a SGT or SSG because I'd probably at one point filled the billet of that rank in the Corps. Things got a lot better after that drill weekend when I wasnt lumped in with the rest of the Non NCOs.
After talking with my Reserve Unit's First Sgt, he got in the formation before the end of the day one drill weekend and had to verbally chew out every NCO and Staff NCO in the unit for treating a fellow NCO as a buck private. He said that since I was a prior service USCM Corporal, I'd had more time in leadership under my belt that the majority of them and from that day on I was to treated as a Corporal. He said if they had no clue how to do that, pretend I was a SGT or SSG because I'd probably at one point filled the billet of that rank in the Corps. Things got a lot better after that drill weekend when I wasnt lumped in with the rest of the Non NCOs.
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I am a MSG assigned to a HHC company and I stand at parade rest for the 1SG and 99.99% of the time, the 1SG tells me to instantly "to stop that" but I do it just to show the other Soldiers what right looks like and show when I get onto another NCO or Soldier for not doing, they know that I do it for the 1SG. It doesn't hurt me nor cause me any undue pressure or stress in my life. Now, I never required it for other MSG to do it for me when I was a 1SG, but I just feels it sets that standard for Soldiers to follow.
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SFC (Join to see)
MSG,
You are absolutely 100% correct. It displays respect and professionalism to the juniors.
You are absolutely 100% correct. It displays respect and professionalism to the juniors.
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A MSG/1SG and SGM/CSM are of the same rank, it's just a change in duty position or a lateral promotion, if you will. A MSG and SGM are staff positions where a 1SG/CSM are in command positions. So, if you look at the reg excerp, it states "of superior rank" not "of superior duty postion".
Looking at the LT saluting thread a 1LT is of higher rank than a 2LT.
Looking at the LT saluting thread a 1LT is of higher rank than a 2LT.
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CSM Michael Poll
Yes I answer to a BDE CSM and I stand at Parade rest for them until they tell me to relax
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SFC Royce Williams
I have to disagree with you SFC Carl Johnson. They are of the same pay grade but not the same rank. There is a big difference. They should afford the proper respect. I have never seen a 1SG or CSM not tell the MSG or SGM to cut it out unless they were in trouble.
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CW2 Carl Swanson
Unless things have changed, SGM and CSM are designated when promoted to E-9. They are not interchangeable like the 1SG/MSG.
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