Posted on May 30, 2014
Scenario: NCOER based on APFT (60% vs. Profile)
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Let's say you have two NCOs who are both good leaders. Come APFT time one of them has a permanent profile and does the 2.5 mile walk instead of the run. Both do the max on push-ups and sit-ups and both pass their Aerobic event. The one without a profile passes their run with 60% and the walker passes the walk.
On the physical fitness and military bearing portion, do you rate them the same? What rating do you give them? It is up to you to decide and I am not looking for any specific answer.
On the physical fitness and military bearing portion, do you rate them the same? What rating do you give them? It is up to you to decide and I am not looking for any specific answer.
NCOER
APFT
NCOs
Posted >1 y ago
Responses: 18
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I would want to know how the walker did. Did they just "pass" at their time or did they have 10 minutes to spare? Yes, I said minutes. That being said, if they had a lot of time to spare on the walk I would probably give them an excellent rating and quantify it w/ "SM had the fastest walk time in unit or SM always passes w/ over 10 minutes to spare", something of that nature. There are alot of people that cannot run due to injury, but they can walk a lot faster than the alloted time. Those are the ones that are doing "above and beyond" and their NCOER should reflect that. If you are just barely passing the run...you give them a success...but highly recommend that they work on their run time.
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SSG (Join to see)
Well said. I am in that group with a permanent profile. I walked a 25:15 and had about 12:30 to spare. Just because I can't run does not mean I can't better myself. I may never run again due to my injury but I can walk like the wind. (yes, I pace female runners and they pass)
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1SG (Join to see)
While I may agree with your intent on a personal level (I walk and always strive to improve my previous time), professionally that goes against what is prescribed in the regulation. There is no scale to measure for walk time other than pass or fail. To give someone a better evaluation based on a better walk time would invite others to then have precedence to give less than positive remarks when they show no improvement on the walk time. A better solution would be to advocate for a graded scale on the walk.
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I can't see using the APFT as the only criteria for determining the rating in that block. Granted it's a factor but maybe the runner also did a tough mudder, maybe the walker coached and trained other soldiers who were mediocre on push-ups and sit-ups increasing their scores by 30 points each. I'd look at everything I can before determining anything.
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MSG (Join to see)
Sir- Yes, I've received and given both. I've competed in the Army 10 miler for the last 5 years and that has gone on my NCOER. I've given bullets for doing the same and tough mudders and other such events. Granted other bullets I use tend to be about performance in terms of coaching other soldiers and improving their scores. If all a SM does in a year is take 2 PT tests then that is all I have and they get pretty generic bullets. But If they do more particularly on their own time I do my best to give credit where it is due.
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MSG (Join to see)
Sir- I promise I run a good 2-3 min slower mile paces on the 10 miler than I do on the APFT. I usually do pretty well on the PT test because I'm training for the 10 miler. I had never received anything other than bullets about APFT in that block until I started doing road races on the weekends. The guidance I've been given is if they can prove that they have done physical activity outside of Army PT (in line with things like road races) I can give them credit for it. I counsel each of my soldiers about it and they know I won't use things like softball there. If there is something they want to do that they think shows endurance and physical activity that they think they should be able to get credit for they know they can bring it to me and we can discuss. I had a soldier do a fire men's challenge (run up and down multiple flights of stairs in full gear) for charity ...I went with it. It is hard to be creative with this block and you're right...if you are doing other things you probably are doing pretty well on the Army PT test.
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SFC (Join to see)
OT: SFC W whats your running program for the 10 miler?
In that block I was mentored that you want your first bullet to be about yourself if you did outstanding on the PT test. Then use your second bullet showing what your Soldiers did.
In that block I was mentored that you want your first bullet to be about yourself if you did outstanding on the PT test. Then use your second bullet showing what your Soldiers did.
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MSG (Join to see)
SFC Thomas- I run around 30 miles a week and run a couple of 15Ks. Usually right around the 8th mile of the 10 miler I can't feel my legs much anymore and just think "2 miles that's it...PT test time" lol. If you've not done it I encourage you to give it a go. Running with 30k people is a blast and it's a way to see the sights like you've never seen them before.
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Both soldiers exceed the APFT standard, but physical fitness is only part of that section. APFT scores alone are insufficient to determine the rating.
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