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Say a soon to be Air Force Officer and current enlisted Marine have a pre-existing relationship, but one is enlisted and the other will be an officer soon. Does fraternization cross between branches? I saw this on Facebook, and didn't know the answer.
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Fraternization
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Fraternization Branch
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 69
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This truly is one of those "Letter of the Law" and "Spirit of the Law" issues.
We all know what the regulations say--no go. But there are moments like this where is it understandable due to pre-existing relationship like my distinguished colleagues have said on this thread.
I have seen and heard of many Officer-Enlisted pairings---married and serious dating. The rating chain and appearance of favoritism (& actual favoritism) really is the crux of it being a show-stopper.
We all know what the regulations say--no go. But there are moments like this where is it understandable due to pre-existing relationship like my distinguished colleagues have said on this thread.
I have seen and heard of many Officer-Enlisted pairings---married and serious dating. The rating chain and appearance of favoritism (& actual favoritism) really is the crux of it being a show-stopper.
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CMSgt (Join to see)
CPT T F -
Concur. The word preceding #5 is key as well-- "AND". Huge word, indeed.
I am an example-leading, line-toting, love-to-mentor chica, but what I do know is that ultimately the heart wants what it wants. When that day comes, and if it is true love (not a passing fancy), one has to make decisions because of the rules. Or do they? I don't know. Thinking is hard. :)
Concur. The word preceding #5 is key as well-- "AND". Huge word, indeed.
I am an example-leading, line-toting, love-to-mentor chica, but what I do know is that ultimately the heart wants what it wants. When that day comes, and if it is true love (not a passing fancy), one has to make decisions because of the rules. Or do they? I don't know. Thinking is hard. :)
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CPT David Caldwell
O was stationed at DLI in 77. The CO of the officer/enlisted woman company was a female captain. She continually berated the geographical bachelor's, usually over O4 who were screwing her E2s. But she was married to an E8 who has the MOH. Nobody gave them any heat.
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TSgt Mark Singleton
The rules (or how they were applied) in the 70's are different than now. I was an A1C that hung out with a big group of 2nd Lts. One was my best man when I was married. Then (in early 80's) on a little communication station with only 3 officers, 80 enlisted and 150 dependents. We all hung out together. I played Backgammon for drinks for drinks every day (he had to buy me 2 to his 1 because I drank beer and he drank Top shelf). By the time I retired in the 90's it was a lot harder. Now days I hear it is nuts. Funny because more enlisted are college educated than ever.
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If I remember correctly once she commissions they will either have to marry or end the relationship. If they were married prior to her commissioning then it's fine.
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PO2 Dan Shulla
SGM Marvin Parker - The Navy had a policy of no fraternization going back to the '70s, though Nurses and Corpsmen sort of ignored it. Some even got married and kept it quiet. I would agree that it shouldn't be an issue as long as they weren't in the same chain of command. I know I couldn't work for my wife and she'd have an issue working for me. "If anybody is going to be in charge it's me" has been her mantra when I slip out of "teamwork" mode and get what she calls bossy.
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CW4 Peek Smith
CPL Pfeiffer - I think you were lied to as well. In '03 we had a female CPT in our unit who was married to an E8. Both were enlisted when they married - it wasn't even an issue as I recall. She was Aviation branch, he was Infantry. The only problems they had seemed to be getting assignments at the same installation.
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SGT Kevin Leake
I know in the 70's it was frowned upon period but if they were in different units so as not to cause a conflict of favoritism most heads turn the other way.
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CPL Ryan Redard
Come on now, lied to all those years? Let's get real here. You were lied to throughout your time in service. Lol
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I would make a recommendation that you research this. There is free legal assistance available through your JAG office, which some people will cringe at that word, but I recommend it for 2 reasons:
1. So the Marine will know where he legally stands with it.
2. The Marine can start planning now on if it will take a marriage to make it work.
It is the Marine who should ask this question, and he should first go through his chain of command when asking that question.
Today's military gives thousands of avenues for advice in one place. The Internet will provide you with mountains of answers, you only have to weed out between the legitimate and the bogus.
This is not meant to berate or belittle you in any way, shape or form, but you need to begin learning about all of your resources you have now. FM's, AR's and any other literature you need to begin getting ready for boards, etc. Take distance learning when you can, and maintain great, not marginal, PT scores and height/weight.
The fact that you are asking this question here means 2 things;
1. That you are willing to help a fellow warrior out, and that is one of the greatest qualities of an NCO in my opinion (which you need to prepare yourself for now.
2. You have sought an avenue for answers here to get assistance with the question, which means you already know how to utilize one great resource.
Here is the web site for Military legal assistance:
http://m.military.com/benefits/military-legal-matters/legal-assistance-and-jag/free-legal-assistance.html
Have him follow his chain, and if they cannot answer the question, request to be able to take the question higher.
His ability to treat his chain of command in a respectful and non-threatening manner will go a long way towards a positive outcome to the question.
If someone on this thread is either a JAG officer or has sighted a regulation, follow their advice. I've been out of the military since 2009, so those who are serving still may very well offer better advice.
1. So the Marine will know where he legally stands with it.
2. The Marine can start planning now on if it will take a marriage to make it work.
It is the Marine who should ask this question, and he should first go through his chain of command when asking that question.
Today's military gives thousands of avenues for advice in one place. The Internet will provide you with mountains of answers, you only have to weed out between the legitimate and the bogus.
This is not meant to berate or belittle you in any way, shape or form, but you need to begin learning about all of your resources you have now. FM's, AR's and any other literature you need to begin getting ready for boards, etc. Take distance learning when you can, and maintain great, not marginal, PT scores and height/weight.
The fact that you are asking this question here means 2 things;
1. That you are willing to help a fellow warrior out, and that is one of the greatest qualities of an NCO in my opinion (which you need to prepare yourself for now.
2. You have sought an avenue for answers here to get assistance with the question, which means you already know how to utilize one great resource.
Here is the web site for Military legal assistance:
http://m.military.com/benefits/military-legal-matters/legal-assistance-and-jag/free-legal-assistance.html
Have him follow his chain, and if they cannot answer the question, request to be able to take the question higher.
His ability to treat his chain of command in a respectful and non-threatening manner will go a long way towards a positive outcome to the question.
If someone on this thread is either a JAG officer or has sighted a regulation, follow their advice. I've been out of the military since 2009, so those who are serving still may very well offer better advice.
If you need to write your will or need a power of attorney or notarized signature. Then you need legal assistance, military servicemembers and their families have access to legal assistance, absolutely free!
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