Posted on Dec 23, 2015
Can America charge somebody for treason if they try to join ISIS?
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I keep hearing the arguments over the proposed legislation that would allow people who have tried to leave to join ISIS, Al Shabaab, Al Qaeda, etc. to have their United States Citizenship revoked and for them to be banned from returning to the country.
The argument as I have heard it, is that there is currently a policy in place that allows for the revocation of citizenship for anyone who leaves to join an enemy military, but that these terrorist groups do not fall into the proper role to qualify under this law, and hence the reason for the proposed legislation.
My question is, what part of leaving to fight for the enemy, during a time of war, doesn't qualify for treason? Why are we talking about revocation of citizenship, and not a streamline to the firing line? Do we even charge people for treason anymore?
The argument as I have heard it, is that there is currently a policy in place that allows for the revocation of citizenship for anyone who leaves to join an enemy military, but that these terrorist groups do not fall into the proper role to qualify under this law, and hence the reason for the proposed legislation.
My question is, what part of leaving to fight for the enemy, during a time of war, doesn't qualify for treason? Why are we talking about revocation of citizenship, and not a streamline to the firing line? Do we even charge people for treason anymore?
Treason
Politics
Edited 9 y ago
Posted 9 y ago
Responses: 13
Americans found to provide support for terrorist groups are generally charged with "conspiring and attempting to provide material support to terrorist organizations." Those who commit attacks can be charged with other capital punishment crimes such as murder, for example as what Nidal Hassan or Timothy McVeigh were charged with.
Fewer than 30 people have ever been charged with treason in US history according to the article below, so it's not really fair to ask "don't we charge for treason anymore", since we never really did. The last case of treason I could find in the United States was 1952... not sure if anybody can find something newer.
Generally speaking, treason seems to be reserved for people who cause a material impact or threat to the safety of the US Government or the United States as a nation. While tragic on the human level, individual terrorist attacks don't do that, and while terrorist groups can unfortunately hurt US citizens, they don't pose an existential threat to the continuation of our nation... which appears to be more in line with the higher threshold for a charge of treason.
http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Few-ever-charged-or-convicted-of-treason-in-U-S-2843242.php
Fewer than 30 people have ever been charged with treason in US history according to the article below, so it's not really fair to ask "don't we charge for treason anymore", since we never really did. The last case of treason I could find in the United States was 1952... not sure if anybody can find something newer.
Generally speaking, treason seems to be reserved for people who cause a material impact or threat to the safety of the US Government or the United States as a nation. While tragic on the human level, individual terrorist attacks don't do that, and while terrorist groups can unfortunately hurt US citizens, they don't pose an existential threat to the continuation of our nation... which appears to be more in line with the higher threshold for a charge of treason.
http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Few-ever-charged-or-convicted-of-treason-in-U-S-2843242.php
Few ever charged or convicted of treason in U.S. history / Many Americans fought for other...
Few ever charged or convicted of treason in U.S. history / Many Americans fought for other religious, political, cultural beliefs In grainy video footage, John Walker proclaimed himself a jihadi, or holy warrior, who quickly become mesmerized by the Taliban's vision of a pure Islamic state while studying religion in Pakistan. A videotape has emerged that shows CIA agent Mike Spann, 32, interrogating an unresponsive Walker shortly before the...
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CW2 (Join to see)
Nope won't find any more. Too many softies out there that will change their tune when their liberties are stripped away. I'm not a radical just and American who stronly believes in that old saying "America Love It, Defend It With Your Life, Or Leave It." This is one of the only countries in the world where you can speak your peace and not be shot for it or disappear in the dark of the night.
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Two points:
1) Treason is DEFINED by the Constitution, explicitly in Art 3, Section 3 (as SSG Gerhard S. mentioned. It has VERY strict requirements. Because of that, we generally do not charge people specifically with Treason but with other crimes, as LTC Yinon Weiss stated.
2) The US has BIRTHRIGHT Citizenship, and a NATURALIZATION process. There is no mechanism in place to "strip" Birthright Citizenship. There is for Naturalized Citizens, IF certain conditions and/or timelines are met. But generally speaking, the Government does not have the Power to take away Citizenship. This is considered a Right, and a Protected Right at that.
However, what can happen is we can "void" the person's Passport or travel privileges. Every Sovereign Nation has the Power to control access to their borders. They can choose who to allow in. By voiding a passport or making someone persona non-grata, we effectively ban them from movement. This is the next best thing to stripping their Citizenship.
1) Treason is DEFINED by the Constitution, explicitly in Art 3, Section 3 (as SSG Gerhard S. mentioned. It has VERY strict requirements. Because of that, we generally do not charge people specifically with Treason but with other crimes, as LTC Yinon Weiss stated.
2) The US has BIRTHRIGHT Citizenship, and a NATURALIZATION process. There is no mechanism in place to "strip" Birthright Citizenship. There is for Naturalized Citizens, IF certain conditions and/or timelines are met. But generally speaking, the Government does not have the Power to take away Citizenship. This is considered a Right, and a Protected Right at that.
However, what can happen is we can "void" the person's Passport or travel privileges. Every Sovereign Nation has the Power to control access to their borders. They can choose who to allow in. By voiding a passport or making someone persona non-grata, we effectively ban them from movement. This is the next best thing to stripping their Citizenship.
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Honestly, I think letting them leave the USA and live under ISIS, if that is their heart's desire, is punishment enough.
Have a nice life, guy. Don't come back.
Have a nice life, guy. Don't come back.
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MSG (Join to see)
1SG (Join to see) Think the postal system would give them a forwarding address form to fill out?
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1SG (Join to see)
MSG (Join to see) - I think getting their Sports Illustrated subscription would be the least of their worries.
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